A question about INTj's

[flower]

Hi, I now know two INTj's, and one has become very close of late, so it would be nice to know more about them.

Do you find yourself in your head a lot, over analysing things quite often? The person im thinking of says she used to as a child think about everything obsesively, to the point that it annoyed her 'why am i thinking about this argg' and it kept her awake at night.

You people seem very trustworthy, and I get the impression that you really need to feel you can trust someone completely. In particular to feel comfortable about discussing deeper things, like value systems and absolute trust and time to discuss insecurities. Agree?

INTj's are very independent people, and I have heard both I know say 'when you think about it, were all really just alone in the world'. This makes me feel uncomfortable, its cold, even for an ISTp Do you tend to think like that? it seems to me that its consistent with the rest of you personality, hard working, driven to do the right thing, to do your duty, but in a detached way, that is respectfull of other people.

Oh, and how can I make you people laugh more, or raise your spirits a bit?, you people often seem to have a consistent naturally low spirit.

[tcaudilllg]

INTj's are very independent people, and I have heard both I know say 'when you think about it, were all really just alone in the world'.

That's a matter of their relationship to . If it is a working relationship then they can build bonds on mutual thought. (ideosyncrasy) Otherwise, they do not allow themselves to see the bonds they are already sharing. The question is whether they feel comfortable acknowledging these bonds, because they are involiable and a vehicle for powerful manipulation of the people they share them with. Of course others are manipulating them too in ways they are unaware of (yet by the same fundamental mechanism, 1st-7th function interrelation), but until they accept the prospect of their own manipulative potential they have no venue by which to even recognize the compensatory manipulations.

[flower]

Hmm, would you therefore say the best way to get closer to an INTj is to share as many ideas and and thoughts as possible where there is a reasonable degree of agreement or they can at least relate well to what your saying?

If I say 'we have a good connection dont you think' they may feel comfortable acknowledging it if there close, or may not, but they see the connection as fundamental to your relationship and therefore should be left alone and not discussed?

[Not A Communist Shill]

Hmm, would you therefore say the best way to get closer to an INTj is to share as many ideas and and thoughts as possible where there is a reasonable degree of agreement or they can at least relate well to what your saying?

If I say 'we have a good connection dont you think' they may feel comfortable acknowledging it if there close, or may not, but they see the connection as fundamental to your relationship and therefore should be left alone and not discussed?

I think a INTj (or at least me ) would think that the fact you were talking to each other as a sign of having a 'close' relationship - I usually like to discuss + argue over a particular topic of discussion, but people tend to try and avoid me after that cuz they find me too intense or they don't agree with me - if they stay, they are on the same level as me even if they don't agree - I usually critique even my own views, but people find me hostile to a particular POV, as though an abstract ideal was part of the person themselves, and to attack that view in anyway is to attack them personally.

So, if INTjs say something about you, it probably isn't a personal attack, more of an abstract attack in a central ground between you...but also, you musn't insult INTjs personally + directly, e.g. in a type manner, by making comments about their physical appearance or ability, behaviour etc. - not only would they (understandably ) find it personally offensive, because they aren't knowledgable about assessing those things + or able to rebuke such comments easily, they might think your moral code (or lack of) a little lacking - INTjs (at least me) have lots of secret plans, meh, for the whole world where every person regardless of how they are, should have some form of equality etc. - to attack a person's ability\apperance\ability in such a brutal manner may make you seem to have no brain, and not being able to go beyond surface appearances and so on....

Do you find yourself in your head a lot, over analysing things quite often? The person im thinking of says she used to as a child think about everything obsesively, to the point that it annoyed her 'why am i thinking about this argg' and it kept her awake at night.

Heh, see post ^ .

Oh, and how can I make you people laugh more, or raise your spirits a bit?, you people often seem to have a consistent naturally low spirits.

I think if you see a INTj somewhere (a social setting even?), they may be quite self-conscious (though other types are too, obviously ) - in conversations, you shouldn't draw attention to them, or even look at them too intently, unless you know them fairly well. I think Alpha humour tends to be self-depracating - they consider it safe ground to make fun of themselves or their ideals - they don't know what the other person is like, but they are aware of their own failings, which they see as human failings in general (if they didn't they would be very depressed...which I guess can happen) - therefore, means for a common ground. (An example of a Alpha NT joke might be to refer to a real failing in their life, but change the context in which it happened, so that you can't be sure whether it did happen or not, or they might just invent something completely, refering to an object which has been introduced or making fun out of a metaphor someone has used etc.).

(Maybe I'll write some examples sometime ).

[tcaudilllg]

Hmm, would you therefore say the best way to get closer to an INTj is to share as many ideas and and thoughts as possible where there is a reasonable degree of agreement or they can at least relate well to what your saying?

If I say 'we have a good connection dont you think' they may feel comfortable acknowledging it if there close, or may not, but they see the connection as fundamental to your relationship and therefore should be left alone and not discussed?

That's not a bad idea, although I should say they will be naturally aware of whether you agree with them or not due to a sense of emotionality they share with people their finds suitable. The best strategy would be to take this emotionality for all it is worth without abusing it. (which you would no doubt find repugnant anyhow)

What INTjs really need is a sense of where their ideosyncracy is socially. (e.g., who the musicians are, who the leaders are, etc.) They need to be made aware of the pop-culture element their can sympathize with. Similarly, they should be isolated from the element they despise save at their own request otherwise.

[UDP]

Work on something together with the INTj. I enjoy working with people on things, especially if you have a decent comprehension of what is going on. But maybe it is just me.

[Logos]

Subterranean nailed my sentiments quite well.

[Exodus]

Oh, and how can I make you people laugh more, or raise your spirits a bit?, you people often seem to have a consistent naturally low spirit.

Give us a hug. Barring that, it makes it easier for me if the atmosphere is very light. That way the INTj doesn't have to worry about making Fi mistakes, and it's all uphill from there.

[Ms. Kensington]

Do you find yourself in your head a lot, over analysing things quite often? The person im thinking of says she used to as a child think about everything obsesively, to the point that it annoyed her 'why am i thinking about this argg' and it kept her awake at night.

You people seem very trustworthy, and I get the impression that you really need to feel you can trust someone completely. In particular to feel comfortable about discussing deeper things, like value systems and absolute trust and time to discuss insecurities. Agree?

INTj's are very independent people, and I have heard both I know say 'when you think about it, were all really just alone in the world'. This makes me feel uncomfortable, its cold, even for an ISTp Do you tend to think like that? it seems to me that its consistent with the rest of you personality, hard working, driven to do the right thing, to do your duty, but in a detached way, that is respectfull of other people.

Oh, and how can I make you people laugh more, or raise your spirits a bit?, you people often seem to have a consistent naturally low spirit.

actually right now i am awake at 5 am because i am thinking about everything.

I do feel that everyone is alone, this might not be type related but maybe it is type related to be comfortable thinking about it. Maybe it makes me sad but not really, lol. Yes I'm very independent, but it doesn't mean that I can't feel tremendous loss, love, loneliness, etc. It's sad but it doesn't make me uncomfortable: the world and the people in it are subjects of analysis.

I think this may be why INTjs have high standards for trust and keep high standards of trust. They see things in terms of absolutes, and rules, not so much in that they create them but because they feel that's the way things are.

This may also be why INTjs seem like they are in low spirits. But that also means that they also have an almost naive experience of happiness and positive moods. One effective way to trigger that is by giving Si and Fe. It will relax them and soothe their polr. Really, it's all about making the polr disappear from conscious worry.

EDIT: one more thing. Flower, I have a few ISTp Si friends and they make me feel better just by sitting there.

[flower]

Thanks for the feedback peeps

So, if INTjs say something about you, it probably isn't a personal attack, more of an abstract attack in a central ground between you...but also, you musn't insult INTjs personally + directly, e.g. in a type manner, by making comments about their physical appearance or ability, behaviour etc. - not only would they (understandably ) find it personally offensive, because they aren't knowledgable about assessing those things + or able to rebuke such comments easily, they might think your moral code (or lack of) a little lacking

The polr, interesting.

So to get you in a good state of mind, i need to tickle you and hug you

A light atmosphere is probably a good thing though.

EDIT: one more thing. Flower, I have a few ISTp Si friends and they make me feel better just by sitting there.

anything in particular about that you can put your finger on?

ooh, ooh, one more thing, if I play you guys at something, like a sport or game or challenge of somekind, do you get annoyed at talk like, 'im gunna kick your as*' ,etc, or is that just a bit of fun to you?


INTj's are great, I seem to get on with them really well. Relations of benifit are supposedly asymetric though, although it dosent feel like it, maybe I need to find an ISFj so I can see what its like to be the benefactor.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

You just need to show and to the INTj. My ESFj mom and half-brother do that to my dad. I simply can't get along with him that well because I'd much rather have somebody butt-raping me with and myself. (more Si than Fe though) We pretty much understand how the other thinks but that's about it. We do absolutely nothing for the other person.

I noticed I wore this very shirt to class one day and my INTj college professor looked like she wanted to do me right then and there.

[Ms. Kensington]

EDIT: one more thing. Flower, I have a few ISTp Si friends and they make me feel better just by sitting there.

anything in particular about that you can put your finger on?

Yes, if people show me Si then I feel I am able to Ne. If I am hindered in expressing Ne then I might clam up a bit.

I would probably not like "im gonna kick your ass" unless the person was smiling or showing me that he was not that serious about it. Sore losers are not fun .. but they can still be competitive

EDIT: what I mean by show me Si: just in general looking like you're not going to freak out if I say or do something unexpected, you look like a calm person.

Also my experience is that I like my beneficiary more than my benefactor.

[flower]

I noticed I wore this very shirt to class one day and my INTj college professor looked like she wanted to do me right then and there.

what did it look like?


thanks ms k, thats what i thought you would say, i think she opens up to me because she can say anything and i dont judge or react, but just share in it with her.

[UDP]

You just need to show and to the INTj. My ESFj mom and half-brother do that to my dad. I simply can't get along with him that well because I'd much rather have somebody butt-raping me with and myself. (more Si than Fe though) We pretty much understand how the other thinks but that's about it. We do absolutely nothing for the other person.

I noticed I wore this very shirt to class one day and my INTj college professor looked like she wanted to do me right then and there.

? You have to explain that post much more. What type is your dad, and why can you not get along with him?

What was your shirt like?

[flower]

ooh, ooh, one more thing, if I play you guys at something, like a sport or game or challenge of somekind, do you get annoyed at talk like, 'im gunna kick your as*' ,etc, or is that just a bit of fun to you?

If the "I'm gunna kick your ass" was meant light-heartedly (like, a friendly challenge sort of thing), then I wouldn't be annoyed (actually I'd enjoy it) and I'd joke back and it'd be a fun competition. If it was meant seriously or was said too intensely, then I'd probably think Rolling Eyes .

I think that's because my main aim when competing with someone is to get better at whatever it is we're doing (like, to improve my fitness or skill at a sport, if that's what we're doing); and also to have fun while we're doing it.

(I don't enjoy social sport/activity much, if it doesn't have any competitive edge, because then there's not enough pressure to get any better at what it is we're doing.)

Cool, I play an INTj at badminton fairly regularly, and just joking around I say stuff like 'im gunna destroy you soul' etc hehe. She does it back which is funny, I just though coz of the polr she might beneath the surface really hate it, even if it is in good spirit.

[UDP]

Either way she likes spending that time with you. An INTj would never spend time doing something it was not getting something out of. Even if she did secretly hate it (which seems unlikely), she likes you enough to endure it.

[lefty]

EDIT: one more thing. Flower, I have a few ISTp Si friends and they make me feel better just by sitting there.

anything in particular about that you can put your finger on?

Also my experience is that I like my beneficiary more than my benefactor.

muahaha ...yeah because your benificiary bolsters your NT ego

xoxo to all the intjs

lefty
enfj 4w5

[James]

I think a INTj (or at least me ) would think that the fact you were talking to each other as a sign of having a 'close' relationship - I usually like to discuss + argue over a particular topic of discussion, but people tend to try and avoid me after that cuz they find me too intense or they don't agree with me - if they stay, they are on the same level as me even if they don't agree - I usually critique even my own views, but people find me hostile to a particular POV, as though an abstract ideal was part of the person themselves, and to attack that view in anyway is to attack them personally.

Yeah, our surprising intensity is a real turnoff for most people, especially men I think. It's great if they need some insight on something in particular, but they just can't help but want to run. Really, women should never, ever be born INTJs. It's cruel.

[intjguy]

Really, women should never, ever be born INTJs. It's cruel.

lol

[MysticSonic]

"Do you find yourself in your head a lot, over analysing things quite often? The person im thinking of says she used to as a child think about everything obsesively, to the point that it annoyed her 'why am i thinking about this argg' Surprised and it kept her awake at night. "

As a child, but not so much anymore; I've learned to control such compulsive impulses.

"You people seem very trustworthy, and I get the impression that you really need to feel you can trust someone completely. In particular to feel comfortable about discussing deeper things, like value systems and absolute trust and time to discuss insecurities. Agree? "

I am very trustworthy, but no longer need a high degree of personal connection with another in order to share the more personal aspects of myself; I've learned that sharing such things only leaves me vulnerable if I allow others to exploit me with it.

"INTj's are very independent people, and I have heard both I know say 'when you think about it, were all really just alone in the world'. This makes me feel uncomfortable, its cold, even for an ISTp Laughing Do you tend to think like that?"

At the the very bottom of the matter, we _are_ completely alone in the world. I do believe, however, that through various mutual bonds with others, one can learn to function with others in a way that does not leave one to bear the burden of _all_ of one's responsibilities. The INTjs you're speaking to are probably very prideful and do not wish to reveal to you that they, themselves, depend on others for things; I know I am often incapable of admitting to another person that I need assistance with one thing or another.

"Oh, and how can I make you people laugh more, or raise your spirits a bit?, you people often seem to have a consistent naturally low spirit.'

I laugh all the time, but my perpetual mellow and rather unenergetic mood are merely my way of keeping my wits about me and maintaining a sense of control of myself and my circumstance; although I joy being vivacious and otherwise lively, it is hard to let myself go in such a manner except in very personal settings, where I am certain I am competent enough to handle the situation.

[James]

Really, women should never, ever be born INTJs. It's cruel.

lol

That a "haha, that is so true" or a "don't be silly" lol?

[UDP]

You have a vast negative self image.

[lefty]

Really, women should never, ever be born INTJs. It's cruel.

lol

That a "haha, that is so true" or a "don't be silly" lol?

the world needs rational women. i dont mean to step on anbodies toes as far as sexual orientation goes, but in a hetero example i wasched a biography fo charles bukowski and i think he married his dual the entp, a woman. and i just thought how neat it was to see a man who suffered a lot, struggled, was promiscuous, and just who lived a totally full life to the very end, not only because of his character, but also because he got lucky enough to find is dual later in life. and she knew just what to do for him. he needed to be angry and scared and push her buttons and come to a point of realizing he was truly loved at this point in his life he was loved and all the wounds were healed the best anyone could ask for. he was loved by a woman and as an icon.

what a valuable thing, also, to see and ISFP male with all these divine aspects or roles they play exhibiting more depth than anyone. that is also healing for the feeling male to exist in the world. it really is most important to embrace what you are.

lefty enfj 4w5

[James]

UDP, I am sure you have a rationale behind your comment, but it's too cryptic for me to get. Lefty, I think you are getting at the idea that if a man who "feels" too much to be what would traditionally be considered 'masculine' can find 'peace' and even love, then perhaps there is room for a female who comes off icy to strangers and awkward on closer examination. Honestly, his life sounds exactly what a worst case scenario would be for me - going from person to person, never staying with one, until he was apparently just too exhausted to do so any longer at the end.

[lefty]

UDP, I am sure you have a rationale behind your comment, but it's too cryptic for me to get. Lefty, I think you are getting at the idea that if a man who "feels" too much to be what would traditionally be considered 'masculine' can find 'peace' and even love, then perhaps there is room for a female who comes off icy to strangers and awkward on closer examination. Honestly, his life sounds exactly what a worst case scenario would be for me - going from person to person, never staying with one, until he was apparently just too exhausted to do so any longer at the end.

well he did have some sad aspects to his life, but he made it into history and i like his writing and he wanted to be liked by people. i think poets are such important figues in society. sometimes i think they're much more like a "sage" then all of the idealists.

but you know that artisans dont like to commit in relationships and i think he enjoyed being promsicuous when he became famous. and you know you prefer more cheeful permanance as your type with your dual. But .... yes totally that feeling men need thinking women. and in this way i think he and his wife solved their enimga which is the fundamental obtainment of completion. so in that it was a sad life, due to his chidhood abuse, it was a happy resolution. happiness that grew out of dispair.