How Betas perceive other quadras

[Expat]

Alpha: Betas tend to regard Alpha types as pleasant company, fun, creative, and generators of ideas, but too goofy and present-oriented, lacking focus and ambition, needing to be led.

Gamma: Betas tend to regard Gamma types as stand-offish and occasionally emotionally hostile, judgemental, and inclined to not seeing the "big picture" in political or work situations, a combination of political naivity and moral stiffness which may end up jeopardizing the Betas' goals. Socially boring, "can't take a joke", vindictive.

Delta: Betas tend to regard Delta types as noncommittal in their unwillingness to support goals decided in a group, lack of drive, and ethical self-righteousness. Rather than back group efforts that require vision and concentration of effort, Delta types prefer to just work on personal projects.

[uninspired]

I would switch the Gamma and Delta descriptions (at least IME). As for the Alpha description, I only feel that way about Alpha SFs. I'll elaborate later.

[snegledmaca]

I disagree with the gamma one. Completely. Especially the last sentence. And deltas view me as unwillingness to support goals decided in a group.

[raisonpure]

I don't agree with any of the above.

[raisonpure]

If you disagree, do you want to offer an alternative?

Alpha: If only Alpha NTs would use their intelligence for concrete benefit to others more often, instead of living in la-la land mentally masturbating over stuff that have questionable existence and use in reality. Focus too much on unfeasible plans for the future instead of what can be done in the here and now. Entertaining company but shallow. Unproductive, don't get ahead in life.

Gamma: Crusaders in defense of justice, admirable for giving necessary criticism when people do not perform their duties properly and inconvenience others with their negligence. Work work work and no fun or relaxation, great for getting ahead in life. Threat to peace. Love the loudness, energetic activity, and lewd humour.

Delta: Good balance of productivity and relaxation, but can't stay too long because the stability can kill. Great benevolence, but cowardly and passive aggressive when flocking to authority instead of dealing punishment personally LIKE A MAN. Fascinating stories and hilarious earthy humour, but may talk too much and do too little when action needs to be taken, as if oblivious to urgency.

[Kristiina]

alpha - never serious about anything and they can't really take anything seriously. Everything's just for fun. Despite that, there are many alphas whose presence I enjoy a lot. I tend to try to guide them too much. I tell them how I think they should behave and I give a verdict on their actions and where it will take them in the future. I barely notice it though - I don't guide them on purpose, it's just something that happens.

gamma - nice. Well, I think I summed it all up with that one word. They are considerate of others and they like everyone to have freedom. They try to understand other peoples motives, etc. I usually like their ideas a lot and most of it makes sense to me, but their presence can be mentally inhibiting because there's just something about Te/Fi that makes me phase out. Like ISFjs - I have very interesting conversations with them, but 50% of the time it's just awkward silence.

delta - if you had asked me about it a few months ago, I would have given you an answer, but I can not answer this without badmouthing my friends. It's not that I don't like deltas - I don't like how I feel about myself in strongly delta company. I no longer try to agree with them or even understand them. I don't even hide that I think differently, but it will take a little longer to get over the frustration that had accumulated until I actually confronted the problems.

[misutii]

Perhaps it's just from lack of substantial experience, however, I find it difficult to make blanket statements on quadras as I'm more inclined towards certain types within each quadra (an after all it's rare that I find I'm in a group with 4 people from the same quadra representing each type). Anyways here's a few observations.


Alpha - I enjoy alpha groups as long they comprise mostly ENTps and INTjs. ENTps get me out of my shell and I like trying to get INTjs out of their shell. ESFjs and ISFps always seem lay way too high maintenance for me and so I avoid them. I like how alphas NTs have fun, they willingly laugh at whatever ridiculousness I'm laughing at. Alpha SFs, however, seem averse to feeling "uncomfortable", and so when I challenge their seemingly simplistic political opinions they recoil and are like "I don't wanna talk about that anymore" blah blah blah, I find that pathetic and feel like interaction is limited.
Positive: Fun, stress-free, no expectations, encouragably sociable atmosphere
Negative: SFs can get gossipy... in the sense that they gossip about topics that clearly reflect their own insecurities almost forcing pity. Difficult to organize activities sometimes/lack cohesion, feel like we're getting on to something but we never get on to it.

Gamma - Absolutely adore the company of INTps, I feel like we understand each other even if we can't help each other. Love how ENTjs and INTps are willing to explore conversations that make most people queasy. Like ESFps when they pay attention to me or else they seem kinda useless. ISFjs are cool until they take some Fi-moralistic stance that makes talking to them about as enjoyable as talking to a tv with CNN on every channel.
Positive: Cool, relaxing atmosphere, fun to watch movies/play video games, have intellectual conversation, play risk.
Negative: Tendency towards gossip-whoring means I'm going to be less open because I know certain ones will gossip about me just as quickly when I'm not around and I find that quality represents bad character. Too inclusive to anyone joining the group, even if they don't respect the person (I can't bear being around ppl I don't respect so feel inclined to modify the groups behaviour, lol)

Delta - So long as ENFps are available in sufficient ratios then it can be fun. ISTps are fun too. (fun = playful) INFjs I need to myself. ESTjs can be made bearable. I find many of their activities kinda lame, like camping and drinking, don't like how they avoid intensity...
positive: group support and working together vs. against each other
negative: I get bored and want to steal the more interesting members away from the group so I can have them for myself.


Also I find that in terms of combinations Apha/Beta groups and Gamma/Delta groups seem most likely. Personally I like being in groups that are Alpha/Beta, but with Gammas I find it better when there's less other betas around.

[idealistichick]

Gammas- They are Gammas. The word speaks for itself. But seriously they can be tolerable at times. INTp's always like talking to me and vice versa. ISFj's are ok. ESFp's annoy me but I only like one of them for some odd reason. ENTj's are pretty funny but annoying.

Alpha's- Cool. They are soooo about nature that it irks me at times. Ummmm yeah and ESFj's are sooooo annoying and what I see as "fake" friendly.

Delta's- ENFp girls are ok but the guys are sooo stupid. They find some way to attack me emotionally. I actually can put up with ISTp's. They can be pretty cool at times.

Yeah Betas Rock....woohooooooooooooo

[ScarlettLux]

Think I already wrote about this in UDP's thread somewhere, but ah well.

Alpha: Fun, carefree people that I can have a good time with, especially the ENTps & INTjs... ISFps are alright as well. Not very good for being totally "comfortable" with though - it gets a bit boring doing the stuff Alphans enjoy over a long period of time. It starts feeling way too childish and immature. Kinda useless crap, basically. ESFjs piss the living shit out of me (most of them female, not surprisingly) ... they tend to chatter incessantly about the most trite things (IMO)

Gamma: Pretty chillin'. Good for an intellectual conversation and some mind stimulation when I'm in the mood, but yet again, can not indulge in silliness too much (whereareas Alpha was *too* silly, Gamma is not enough silly besides ESFps at times) ESFps are the only type that I can be around for a long time in the Gamma quadra. ENTjs, no RL interaction as of yet, so I can not say, but being my supervisor.. yikes? INTps get extremely boring after a while. It's like we are so similar, but have zero way to connect on a "true" level. It's just like a mirage. ISFjs are just annoying moralistic pricks that are too quiet and can't take a joke.

Delta: Borinnng, besides ENFps who *can* be some fun. However, after only some time, even ENFps can get on my nerves... actually quite a bit on my nerves. They're too wishy washy and whacko... Ne spouting out all over the place is funny, but only for a limited amount of time you know! The Si + Te piss me off the most though. ISTps .. omg *slits throat* They are soooo boring IMO. ESTjs just need to get that stick out of their asses.


Yeppp, sorry Quadras

[lefty]

Alpha: Betas tend to regard Alpha types as pleasant company, fun, creative, and generators of ideas, but too goofy and present-oriented, lacking focus and ambition, needing to be led.

Gamma: Betas tend to regard Gamma types as stand-offish and occasionally emotionally hostile, judgemental, and inclined to not seeing the "big picture" in political or work situations, a combination of political naivity and moral stiffness which may end up jeopardizing the Betas' goals. Socially boring, "can't take a joke", vindictive.

Delta: Betas tend to regard Delta types as noncommittal in their unwillingness to support goals decided in a group, lack of drive, and ethical self-righteousness. Rather than back group efforts that require vision and concentration of effort, Delta types prefer to just work on personal projects.

****************

Re: The Gammas: It depends on which members of the quadrant youre talking about. ENTJs and ISFPs are rather banal and humorless, in my opinon as an ENFJ, in work situations, but ESFPs and INTPs can be full of humor, sometimes inappropraite, that even makes me uncomfortable. Yes they do sometimes fail to see the bigger picture, but I think the ESFP & INTP are better and grasping it given the chance. I think ENTJs & ISFPS...I think ENTJ is scheeming because they're scared of hard work and in my experience the ISFP hords work and is a stuffy supervisor (and not good at it due to their informative & not administrative nature.

Re: Aplhas: I think the world is a better place with them in it. Their ideas make things happen, they are creative, interesting, cerebal, interesting and a pleasure to know. Periodically I do think there's a failure to act on their part, but that they are so competant that they are invaulable in all aspects of life. I think their playfulness, is sometimes frustrating, but ultimately a sign of wisdom & that they've got things under control.

Deltas: They are capable of getting huge amounts of work done & can be skilled at dealing with the public (particularly the extroverts). I appreciate what they do in my company & I appreciate aspects of them in the world, but I am generally uwilling to allow them to take the lead, because I know that in may cases if their position is not escalating to a raise or promotion, and maybe even if it is, that they have difficulty with new ideas, can have anti-social fits, will take off as much time as possible, and will try to get things moving in an automated manner in order to do as little work as possible.

Betas: My babies. I admire the Beta willingness to say thinks that are uncomfortable to say, to address problems, to prevent problems from escalating and to really fucking drive it home when it comes to getting something done. They are lacking in the extreme intelligence of the Alphas, they are not as adept at obtaining resources as the Gammas, & they are not as preoccupied with group opinion as the Deltas. All traits which probably have vaule in and of themselves.

[lefty]

They (Betas) are lacking in the extreme intelligence of the Alphas,

Intelligence has nothing to do with type.

You know I thihk that socionics outlines the fact that there are different kinds of intelligence. And I think type certainly does play into intelligence.

I knew an ESTP that was very interested in computers and was very smart about them, despite his drug and alcohol use. I sort of think that since he's so close in the scheme of thing to Deltas that he's got some of the delta "borg," characteristics if you've ever heard the breakdown of types.

I absolutely think that type determines what kind of intelligence we are likely to have. That's my intuitive opinion and im certainly entitled to it...Thankfully I"m not saying that people with brown eyes are smart and blue eyes are dumb in the fashion of that social experiement they do. This isn't about something shallow like racial issues and its not even socioeconomic, because I've known people who dont come from financial wealth at all who I still consider extremely bright and in my opnion it can be and is traced back to temprament (especially in terms of what type of intelligence they've got).

lefty
enfj
4w5

[FDG]

It's not something you can think about, lefty. It's just the way the world is: intelligence is not related to type. If you go around and know people of different levels of intelligence, you'll see the types evenly spread. Also, most intelligences are correlated, usually people that are good at something are good at everything else too.

[aestrivex]

They (Betas) are lacking in the extreme intelligence of the Alphas,

Intelligence has nothing to do with type.

You know I thihk that socionics outlines the fact that there are different kinds of intelligence. And I think type certainly does play into intelligence.

I knew an ESTP that was very interested in computers and was very smart about them, despite his drug and alcohol use. I sort of think that since he's so close in the scheme of thing to Deltas that he's got some of the delta "borg," characteristics if you've ever heard the breakdown of types.

have you been reading lewis stern's pseudo-information?

[lefty]

It's not something you can think about, lefty. It's just the way the world is: intelligence is not related to type. If you go around and know people of different levels of intelligence, you'll see the types evenly spread. Also, most intelligences are correlated, usually people that are good at something are good at everything else too.

I doubt it. I think an NT is unlikely to have average intelligence even if they have a personality disorder. And I also fully disagree that if someone is good at one thing they will be good at all others...An NT may be brilliant at the persuit of most things, but that doesn't mean they wont make mistakes in terms of human relationships etc.

lefty

enfj 4w5

[lefty]

have you been reading lewis stern's pseudo-information?[/quote]

no ive been reading my own intutions. which is sort of the origin for all ideas anyway (intuition itself, that is.)


lefty
enfj
4w5

[FDG]

It's not something you can think about, lefty. It's just the way the world is: intelligence is not related to type. If you go around and know people of different levels of intelligence, you'll see the types evenly spread. Also, most intelligences are correlated, usually people that are good at something are good at everything else too.

I doubt it. I think an NT is unlikely to have average intelligence even if they have a personality disorder. And I also fully disagree that if someone is good at one thing they will be good at all others...An NT may be brilliant at the persuit of most things, but that doesn't mean they wont make mistakes in terms of human relationships etc.

lefty

enfj 4w5

You don't seem to start from the observations but only from your own insights. Experience has taught me that intelligence is evenly spread among types. Maybe you have different experiences, I don't.

[Kristiina]

It's not something you can think about, lefty. It's just the way the world is: intelligence is not related to type. If you go around and know people of different levels of intelligence, you'll see the types evenly spread. Also, most intelligences are correlated, usually people that are good at something are good at everything else too.

I doubt it. I think an NT is unlikely to have average intelligence even if they have a personality disorder. And I also fully disagree that if someone is good at one thing they will be good at all others...An NT may be brilliant at the persuit of most things, but that doesn't mean they wont make mistakes in terms of human relationships etc.

lefty

enfj 4w5

You don't seem to start from the observations but only from your own insights. Experience has taught me that intelligence is evenly spread among types. Maybe you have different experiences, I don't.

I know ISFps who have kinda given up. They don't feel smart at all - in fact, they feel very inadequate at giving Te/Ti answers so they start using other "cards". This makes them act silly and somewhat flippant. This does not stop them from achieving their goals. One is a young doctor who is very shy about praise but when she knows something for sure, she'll insist that she'll be taken seriously. Has saved at least one guy's life! The other one is a university professor who is very smart in her field, but when it came to teaching her class, she seemed unable to leave out irrelevant data. I'm pretty sure she has a doctorate degree and she's the kind of woman who smiles to everyone with good mood. I think she cheers up all the alpha NT's in her department. The INFps that I know are similar, but they try even harder to get good grades and to get a degree in their field.
I have opposite experiences with some Ti types, for example ESTps. They probably have a lot of potential, but they put all their energy into trying to get other people's attention.

So basically, people of all types can be smart, but IMHO, they all tend to be it differently. And in real life (in stead of IQ tests) the effect of the type is even greater. I know an extremely smart INTp and I know an extremely smart ESTj. In the same kind of situations they behave totally differently, both act the best way possible from their subjective PoV.