How Alphas perceive other quadras

[Expat]

Beta: Alphas tend to regard Beta types as "cool" and fun, although "fun" with a bit of an edge, and too often inclined to be a bit bossy; in social situations Alphas are usually resigned to let Betas take the lead. At work, Alphas are inclined to regard Beta types as too single-minded and rigid.

Gamma: Alphas tend to regard Gamma types warily, as stand-offish and emotionally cold or even hostile, especially in work situations, as well as inclined to treat individuals differently depending on their relationships with them. Alphas tend to see Gamma types as too harsh in their words and generally unimaginative, boring, and too worried about the future, as well as having a mean streak of unforgivingness and vindictiveness.

Delta: Alphas tend to regard Delta types as kindly and creative, but a bit too serious in their ideals and principles and too demanding of the same from others.

[UDP]

In a general sense I can see that being how quadra attitudes play out.

[Expat]

In a general sense I can see that being how quadra attitudes play out.

But can you also relate to those, personally? Or not at all?

[posablethumb]

I agree. how does that make you feel?

[UDP]

(I assume?) [I] am not like most alphas when it comes to personal working environment. Too much alpha influence, in the stereotypical way, is not appealing, as I like to see progress. I enjoy working with ENTjs and ESTjs in my limited experience with them, but this is generally in a mixed atmosphere. If I were surrounded completely in a gamma atmosphere, perhaps my feeling would be different. I would not use myself as a good example for the typical LII or alpha attitude, however, in regard to certain aspects of my personality, and this may be one of them.

For instance, I know some alpha people who were thrown by both my ENTj accounting teacher and my ISFj economics teacher.
- One ESE dropped the economics class because it was both too theoretical for her, and she did not like his attitude -- much as you described. The same person also remarked when I became silent during walking - Fe checks; it is easy to see how she would be offended by Se creative from the econ teacher -- but I found that Se to be necessary and very useful, in that it woke up a lot of the young kids who were not being professional about college. The way the class was conducted was especially to my liking - I imagine kind of like how Diana and I think a like in some matters, because I could relate to the how the ISFj teacher formed his thoughts - very rational (I ended up with an A- in the course). Initially, his Se creative examples seemed rather selfish and greedy, but knowing socionics helped me understand what he was trying to do; although he presented the Se creative image and "assertiveness" of beliefs, he is someone who really does care about your success as a person and student, and I always appreciate that.
- The same ESE (si subtype) mentioned above also commented on how she felt the ENTj teacher shouted because he didn't want people to fall asleep in his class (but she did anyways...), when really it was the ENTj dealing with his Fe role. It was definitely Gamma/Se sort of interaction, and a few years ago, it would bother me, as I would be more fully subconsciously expecting Fe(+Si) from everyone. But I understood what he was trying to do, and it did not bother me. He is someone who will be very useful to me because his is very focused on connections (which I am not), and yet is very very strong on ethics. I will try to keep in touch with him, or at least try to stay on his mailing lists, which offer numerous opportunities and campus activities - a slew of important items.


So Gammanians are generally useful to me. I usually get along with their , and if I do not, then I do not worry about it and move on. I am not sure I would want to "relax" with a bunch of Gammas, but I really do not know, as it has never happened. Working with them has not been a problem thus far. But most recently my experience has been with some quality people, who also happen to be Gamma, so that makes it easier to say things like in this post, I imagine.

[UDP]

I agree. how does that make you feel?

Maybe you can relate? If you think you are a Ti subtype LII.


I assume I have gone out of my way to understand Se more than other LIIs, and thereby appreciate Se more, to some extent. But I have no way of confirming that. The majority of LIIs I know, which are Ne subtypes, are a lot more sensitive to Se issues, and Se people, and Se situations in general. With my LII ne room mate, I was always the one who told other people to quiet down because we were trying to sleep, and not party like some of the other people on our floor. (Granted, he would be there for his friends and such without a doubt. But for everyday simple things like that (as you read in LII profiles), he did not actively defend his interests very well.)

[posablethumb]

Oh no. You don't want me to get started on Se again. Read ezra's 'What's MY type' thread for more details.

[UDP]

(Off-thread: does that mean that INTj-Ti's are more sensitive to Fe? If so, can you give an example UDP?)

I am not sure how to answer that. Off topic material discussed here:
[spoil:93a741abd4]Partly, no: I have learned to consciously disregard my instincts to observe fully the atmosphere around me, or rather, the emphasis I put on it. I have posted a few times about how I dislike incredibly forfeiting my "emotional territory" to other people. (I am not sure if that has anything to do with being Ti subtype though).

Partly, somewhat: with is probably one of the most attractive things to me, and I do not know why. Miss Virgina's (though typed as ENFj), was oddly appealing. One way to interpret things is (which is somewhat related to the above "no" response), is that, because I interpret everyone as neutral, a powerful flashing of is one of the few things that can really indicate personal relationship potential. can be something sexual in nature to me, honestly. So I certainly do not expect it from everyone, nor would I want such. It is probably something fairly important for me to have in a personal relationship for me, I assume, because I have a difficult time telling how someone feels, or if someone really wants to spend time with me personally or not. I suppose that is it - I look for Fe to dictate relationship direction. And yet, I can feel very comfortable around Fi leading types as well. The difference there is, with Fi leadings, I realize that I am more in control of putting forth the effort to move the relationship in a direction, although it is up to the Fi person to decide how much and what is enough (or something like that).


So am I more sensitive to Fe? I think in the personal sphere, yes - or at least, I do not imagine I appreciate it less, so it is either "normal" or "above normal" appreciation. From other people, no - it is much much more a matter of character, internal structure, and whether or not they seem healthy and other such things. See what I wrote about my gamma professors last semester. But when it comes to being close to someone, I am realizing Fe and Si is something I like a great deal: such, combined with a solid character, is probably the most disarming thing. (edited in: consequently, I am extremely cautious about Fe and Si, because I know I appreciate it, and I know it is something that could be used to manipulate me. So I am somewhat distrustful about it in general. And yet, I understand that too much of that attitude will lead one into being completely psychologically distanced from everyone.)

One way or another, someone is going to have to be very upfront with me about everything, and I can see how I would come off as controlling. What is nice about ESEs is that they are generally fairly direct with their emotional expressions, so knowing that truth from them is something I appreciate a great deal (although anyone can manipulate of course).

Also, it should be noted that I am extremely rational with my relationships. So I think it makes sense that, in terms of personal relationships, I appreciate the rational quality of Fe. And because I am confident in intuition, having Si creative is a great match. Especially when I am hungry.[/spoil:93a741abd4]

[UDP]

content moved

[Elro]

So Gammanians are generally useful to me.

No. Gammalonians.

[Logos]

Beta: Alphas tend to regard Beta types as "cool" and fun, although "fun" with a bit of an edge, and too often inclined to be a bit bossy; in social situations Alphas are usually resigned to let Betas take the lead. At work, Alphas are inclined to regard Beta types as too single-minded and rigid.

Gamma: Alphas tend to regard Gamma types warily, as stand-offish and emotionally cold or even hostile, especially in work situations, as well as inclined to treat individuals differently depending on their relationships with them. Alphas tend to see Gamma types as too harsh in their words and generally unimaginative, boring, and too worried about the future, as well as having a mean streak of unforgivingness and vindictiveness.

Delta: Alphas tend to regard Delta types as kindly and creative, but a bit too serious in their ideals and principles and too demanding of the same from others.

For the most part, I agree.

[UDP]

Mhm.

[Exodus]

Beta: Alphas tend to regard Beta types as "cool" and fun, although "fun" with a bit of an edge, and too often inclined to be a bit bossy; in social situations Alphas are usually resigned to let Betas take the lead. At work, Alphas are inclined to regard Beta types as too single-minded and rigid.

Gamma: Alphas tend to regard Gamma types warily, as stand-offish and emotionally cold or even hostile, especially in work situations, as well as inclined to treat individuals differently depending on their relationships with them. Alphas tend to see Gamma types as too harsh in their words and generally unimaginative, boring, and too worried about the future, as well as having a mean streak of unforgivingness and vindictiveness.

Delta: Alphas tend to regard Delta types as kindly and creative, but a bit too serious in their ideals and principles and too demanding of the same from others.

These descriptions seem to be dominated by and . Maybe a little bit of as well, but the isn't prominent at all.

I think the description is good, but this is a problem with Alpha stereotypes in general.

Alphas see "treating people differently" as part of a larger lack of concern for consistency and clarity of thought, which is incompatible with Ti.

[Logos]

These descriptions seem to be dominated by and . Maybe a little bit of as well, but the isn't prominent at all.

I think the description is good, but this is a problem with Alpha stereotypes in general.

Alphas see "treating people differently" as part of a larger lack of concern for consistency and clarity of thought, which is incompatible with Ti.

I thought it was more of a Fe thing, but I can see your point.

Where there's , there's a demand for and vice versa.

[UDP]

Mhm.

Maybe that's why the INTjs are taking issues with it, it's missed some parts that would be more important to them.

Perhaps. I really was not paying attention - it just seemed like Expat's Te writing style. If I gave it more of a thorough analysis and critiqued it heavily, I would change some things, but it did not strike me that way. I believe a dose of and its understanding would be useful of course - but the LII crew here seems to have it under control.

[UDP]

^like this

Alphas see "treating people differently" as part of a larger lack of concern for consistency and clarity of thought, which is incompatible with Ti.

Good call

[Logos]

Of course, but there isn't necessarily equal emphasis.

My post pertained more to behavioral consistency in regards to Alphas between types and quadras.

[Exodus]

? I don't get what the problem is. It's all the same, as Logos stated.

[Exodus]

I'm nitpicking, that's the only problem.

lol, I can't really criticize anyone for that.

[Expat]

Beta: Alphas tend to regard Beta types as "cool" and fun, although "fun" with a bit of an edge, and too often inclined to be a bit bossy; in social situations Alphas are usually resigned to let Betas take the lead. At work, Alphas are inclined to regard Beta types as too single-minded and rigid.

Gamma: Alphas tend to regard Gamma types warily, as stand-offish and emotionally cold or even hostile, especially in work situations, as well as inclined to treat individuals differently depending on their relationships with them. Alphas tend to see Gamma types as too harsh in their words and generally unimaginative, boring, and too worried about the future, as well as having a mean streak of unforgivingness and vindictiveness.

Delta: Alphas tend to regard Delta types as kindly and creative, but a bit too serious in their ideals and principles and too demanding of the same from others.

These descriptions seem to be dominated by and . Maybe a little bit of as well, but the isn't prominent at all.

Perhaps this would help --

Betas: Alphas admire Betas' readiness to commit to strong views and defend them

Gammas: Alphas tend to see Gammas as cynical, "not believing in anything" (a phrase I have heard from Alphas)

Deltas: Alphas tend to see Deltas's beliefs as lacking in consistency.

[UDP]

One negativist version of how alpha's see the other Qs:

Beta: too rigid, too narrow minded, too insecure. Ugly - they have no sense of beauty or peace. Their thought process are limited by Se>Ne, and are aristocratic, creating a false sense of dichotomy. Many of them live their whole life like they are in high school, no progress, no change

Gamma: More concerned with "getting there" then where we are going, progress without direction, or in the wrong direction. Ugly - they have no sense of beauty or peace, and above in regard to disregarding Ne for Se. The attitude of "as long as my direct relationships are fine, everything else in the world is fine" (Se + Fi), which is of course a way to convince yourself that avoiding Fe and Si is acceptable.

Delta: Hedonistic to a fault - about certain things. And on other matters, they are very sound at compromising their values. It seems to be a matter of ethical perception -- what is the loophole in their principles that allows them to gratify their desires? May have an unrealistically high moral image of themselves (more for ratoinals). For the irrationals, they may have an unrealistically non-existant take on principles, focusing on whatever gratifies them. Like old people, with their grand ideals and what they consider wisdom, but little means of accomplishing it themselves. (Whereas betas are better at doing things, but may have a poor sense of direction and working with people outside of their cliques)

Basically, the problem with any quadra is how they rationalize the avoidance or disregard of their weak functions.
It is not a sound profile of course, but offers some insights.

[Logos]

One negativist version of how alpha's see the other Qs:

Beta: too rigid, too narrow minded, too insecure. Ugly - they have no sense of beauty or peace. Their thought process are limited by Se>Ne, and are aristocratic, creating a false sense of dichotomy. Many of them live their whole life like they are in high school, no progress, no change

Gamma: More concerned with "getting there" then where we are going, progress without direction, or in the wrong direction. Ugly - they have no sense of beauty or peace, and above in regard to disregarding Ne for Se. The attitude of "as long as my direct relationships are fine, everything else in the world is fine" (Se + Fi), which is of course a way to convince yourself that avoiding Fe and Si is acceptable.

Delta: Hedonistic to a fault - about certain things. And on other matters, they are very sound at compromising their values. It seems to be a matter of ethical perception -- what is the loophole in their principles that allows them to gratify their desires? May have an unrealistically high moral image of themselves (more for ratoinals). For the irrationals, they may have an unrealistically non-existant take on principles, focusing on whatever gratifies them. Like old people, with their grand ideals and what they consider wisdom, but little means of accomplishing it themselves. (Whereas betas are better at doing things, but may have a poor sense of direction and working with people outside of their cliques)

Basically, the problem with any quadra is how they rationalize the avoidance or disregard of their weak functions.
It is not a sound profile of course, but offers some insights.

Not bad.

[Blaze]

Beta: rigid and uncompromising yes but i don't agree with the beauty part. enfj's and infp's value beauty.

Gamma: yes spot on.

Delta: the words we are looking for is hypocritical and close-minded.

[Gilly]

Beta: Alphas tend to regard Beta types as "cool" and fun, although "fun" with a bit of an edge, and too often inclined to be a bit bossy; in social situations Alphas are usually resigned to let Betas take the lead. At work, Alphas are inclined to regard Beta types as too single-minded and rigid.

Gamma: Alphas tend to regard Gamma types warily, as stand-offish and emotionally cold or even hostile, especially in work situations, as well as inclined to treat individuals differently depending on their relationships with them. Alphas tend to see Gamma types as too harsh in their words and generally unimaginative, boring, and too worried about the future, as well as having a mean streak of unforgivingness and vindictiveness.

Delta: Alphas tend to regard Delta types as kindly and creative, but a bit too serious in their ideals and principles and too demanding of the same from others.

Absolutely perfect.

[Park]

Betas: Alphas admire Betas' readiness to commit to strong views and defend them

I also admire people that are ready to commit to strong views and defend them, especially those who can unconditionally defend their views and principles.

Gammas: Alphas tend to see Gammas as cynical, "not believing in anything" (a phrase I have heard from Alphas)

I think many people see me like that. "not believing in anything" is a phrase that has been addressed to me many times.

[Ms. Kensington]

Beta: Alphas tend to regard Beta types as "cool" and fun, although "fun" with a bit of an edge, and too often inclined to be a bit bossy; in social situations Alphas are usually resigned to let Betas take the lead. At work, Alphas are inclined to regard Beta types as too single-minded and rigid.

Gamma: Alphas tend to regard Gamma types warily, as stand-offish and emotionally cold or even hostile, especially in work situations, as well as inclined to treat individuals differently depending on their relationships with them. Alphas tend to see Gamma types as too harsh in their words and generally unimaginative, boring, and too worried about the future, as well as having a mean streak of unforgivingness and vindictiveness.

Delta: Alphas tend to regard Delta types as kindly and creative, but a bit too serious in their ideals and principles and too demanding of the same from others.

bolded what I agree with.

Beta: requiring emotional involvement, which is tiring, adhering to a single standard.
Gamma: Not sure what they will say behind my back. Seem overly biased simplistic/intolerant.
Delta: I think i get along with them in work situations. I consider them as less creative than Alphas, for some reason.

Alpha is my quadra but I hate them too: they are too frivolous sometimes for my taste.

i love them all too btw.

[eunice]

Beta
*positives: all-rounder, able to make full use of their time effectively, good-looking and take care of their appearance very well, attractive and dynamic personality, smart
*negatives: elitist, too brand-conscious, likes to appear impressive, no self-control and always like things in excess

Gamma
*positives: intelligent, work hard to contribute to society, serious and get things done quickly, good time management skills, successful in no matter what they do
*negatives: makes others look stupid, too career-oriented, jokes appear serious rather than funny sometimes

Delta
*positives: kind, generous, tactful, wise, imaginative, appreciates creativity
*negatives: boring, too mature

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

Yeah eunice I agree with those 110%.

But I also have a preference for quadras:

1. Alpha is my favorite.
2. Then Delta.
3. Then Beta.
4. Then Gamma.

I guess 2 and 3 can switch sometimes depending on my mood.

[Exodus]

Beta: Alphas tend to regard Beta types as "cool" and fun, although "fun" with a bit of an edge, and too often inclined to be a bit bossy; in social situations Alphas are usually resigned to let Betas take the lead. At work, Alphas are inclined to regard Beta types as too single-minded and rigid.

Gamma: Alphas tend to regard Gamma types warily, as stand-offish and emotionally cold or even hostile, especially in work situations, as well as inclined to treat individuals differently depending on their relationships with them. Alphas tend to see Gamma types as too harsh in their words and generally unimaginative, boring, and too worried about the future, as well as having a mean streak of unforgivingness and vindictiveness.

Delta: Alphas tend to regard Delta types as kindly and creative, but a bit too serious in their ideals and principles and too demanding of the same from others.

These descriptions seem to be dominated by and . Maybe a little bit of as well, but the isn't prominent at all.

Perhaps this would help --

Betas: Alphas admire Betas' readiness to commit to strong views and defend them

Gammas: Alphas tend to see Gammas as cynical, "not believing in anything" (a phrase I have heard from Alphas)

Deltas: Alphas tend to see Deltas's beliefs as lacking in consistency.

I still don't get the "Ti = strong beliefs" interpretation for the life of me. Of course from a Te standpoint believing something without evidence probably requires something like that, but it's not at all how Ti ego people instinctively see it.

[Expat]

I still don't get the "Ti = strong beliefs" interpretation for the life of me. Of course from a Te standpoint believing something without evidence probably requires something like that, but it's not at all how Ti ego people instinctively see it.

But you just described the point of this thread.

[Exodus]

I still don't get the "Ti = strong beliefs" interpretation for the life of me. Of course from a Te standpoint believing something without evidence probably requires something like that, but it's not at all how Ti ego people instinctively see it.

But you just described the point of this thread.

I know, I just wanted to get that out there, since you refer to it a lot.