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Thread: Integral Type of France

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    Default Integral Type of France

    As D Lytov states, I agree that France is the Land of ESFjs. It has tasty food, excellent dress sense and nice people.

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    France does not have nice people. Italy yes. France? absolutely not. Well maybe 3 but no more than 4 in the countryside.

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    you mean ESFP?
    thing.

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    If you're a tourist, every country has nice people.
    Binary or dichotomous systems, although regulated by a principle, are among the most artificial arrangements that have ever been invented. -- William Swainson, A Treatise on the Geography and Classification of Animals (1835)

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    Actually when I was thinking of the "nice people" in France I was specifically thinking of the sellers. Particular ones I came across did seem ESFj, and indeed, ESFjs are excellent sellers.

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    Also the tasty food and excellent dress sense point to .

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    When I was in Paris I got a isfp vibe. Esfj or isfp sounds about right. I really enjoyed much more than I imagined I would have. Much much more than London,(sorry londoners) Italy was a favorite too. Italy was esxp to me.

    Topaz

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    Default Integral Type of France

    France seems INFp to me, but I'm not sure...

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    France has always seemed / to me. There is an emphasis Just letting people do what they do, be what they be. I used to be in love with France but honestly never learned much about it, but from the little I know, I'm sure the emphasis is on and information.

    Enjoyment seems like a key theme.

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    France is indeed and but with a lot of and too.

    Probably Fe EJ - EXFj ethical subtype, probably more ESFj than ENFj.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    Probably Fe EJ - EXFj ethical subtype, probably more ESFj than ENFj.
    if France didn't lack initiative...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    France is indeed and but with a lot of and too.

    Probably Fe EJ - EXFj ethical subtype, probably more ESFj than ENFj.
    If you look at French movies, dominates quite clearly. ESE is pretty much the consensus on its integral type.

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    I know that, and I don't disagree, but France as a country also has a concern with "glory", with projecting an image of power exceeding its actual power (as in being concerned with the existence of "la Francophonie" etc) which is more EIE than ESE.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    I know that, and I don't disagree, but France as a country also has a concern with "glory", with projecting an image of power exceeding its actual power (as in being concerned with the existence of "la Francophonie" etc) which is more EIE than ESE.
    Perhaps. I don't disagree, and the concept of integral types is pretty vague. I think the main thing is do figure out the "base function" - the default language used between people in the country, and also what comes across most in movies and the culture.

    I think the movies focus more on than , though. The general feel of most French movies (well, that I've encountered) is one of playful fun and expressiveness, rather than of emotions "for a serious purpose."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    I know that, and I don't disagree, but France as a country also has a concern with "glory", with projecting an image of power exceeding its actual power (as in being concerned with the existence of "la Francophonie" etc) which is more EIE than ESE.
    had? honestly curious.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick
    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    France is indeed and but with a lot of and too.

    Probably Fe EJ - EXFj ethical subtype, probably more ESFj than ENFj.
    If you look at French movies, dominates quite clearly. ESE is pretty much the consensus on its integral type.
    Yes, I watched a bit of French TV while I was in Paris, and on this really cool channel ShortsTV there was a huge tendency towards Fe/Ti-type personalities and concepts.

    Also, at least in comparison to the US there seemed to be a huge emphasis on Si; dressing well, etc. are valued quite highly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by science as magic
    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    I know that, and I don't disagree, but France as a country also has a concern with "glory", with projecting an image of power exceeding its actual power (as in being concerned with the existence of "la Francophonie" etc) which is more EIE than ESE.
    had? honestly curious.
    Hm? Curious about what? What do you mean with "had"? Are you asking whether France still has a concern with "glory"? Maybe not as much as in the times of Louis XIV, but yes, it still does imo.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
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    i have noticed a pride in their cultural heritage in a manner that seems esfj but not a proclivity toward glory. can you outline a few examples of what you are talking about?

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    I have so many --

    But one simple example is -- France continues to essentially sustain the CFA franc (a common currency in their former colonies in west Africa) and to intervene militarily there, for no real purpose except to maintain the image that they are still at least a "power". There are no economic interests -- the GDP of those countries, together, are probably smaller than Paris' (I am not exaggerating - the GDP of all African countries between the Saharan and South Africa, together, equal Belgium's). Economically it's nonsense.

    So the only explanation is that they still want to create the illusion of being a major international power. Yeah, in West Africa, they certainly are
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    From my encounters with the French in the U.S., it seems that it's perfectly normal in France to say, "France is the best country in the world. Let me tell you why..." Openly displaying national pride in an emotional way seems to be the norm. If you did this in the U.S., people would probably say you look retarded.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick
    From my encounters with the French in the U.S., it seems that it's perfectly normal in France to say, "France is the best country in the world. Let me tell you why..." Openly displaying national pride in an emotional way seems to be the norm. If you did this in the U.S., people would probably say you look retarded.
    We are not patriotic so much in France ; at least if you actually do what you said, you can possibly pass as a racist. In France, we're not patriotic, we're pretty much over-relativitic hippies. According to Beck's Spiral Dynamics, that's normal and an effect of the GREEN vMeme. Having pride for his country is more much BLUE or ORANGE-ish.

    In France, there is a candidate for presidency which has the name of Le Pen (7-ENFj ?) ; he is the nationalist-patriotic french political leader. Others candidates considered nationalist-patriotic are De Villiers (4-INFj ?), Sarkozy (8-ISTj ?), Dupont-Aignan (not sure of type) and Mégret (not sure of type). If in France, especially urban public places, you actually claim you are on the side of such politicians, in the best case some people can see you weirdly, and in the worst case some people can beat your face in. But why ? because in France, there's a meme which stipulates that "patriotism = racism". In France, if you display emotional patriotic pride, as you said, you can actually be seen as retarded, as in USA.

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    I guess people are more patriotic when they're overseas...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick
    I guess people are more patriotic when they're overseas...
    Yes, because it's less risky... French people are mainly introverts, so they don't like to take risks.

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    @Expat: how would you distinguish this from say the uk's intervention in the falkland islands?

    i realize that one is a response to an "aggressive" move by another country but from another point of view both france and the united kingdom were just taking measures to ensure their sovereignty

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    Quote Originally Posted by science as magic
    @Expat: how would you distinguish this from say the uk's intervention in the falkland islands?

    i realize that one is a response to an "aggressive" move by another country but from another point of view both france and the united kingdom were just taking measures to ensure their sovereignty
    Which sovereignity? Are you saying that those West African countries are still colonies of France? If so, you are mistaken.

    The differences are:

    1) The Falklands Islands were and are still a British possession, officially. Cote d'Ivoire etc have been independent for over 50 years. So the Argentinian aggression - yes, aggression - was against Britain herself. It's the same situation as if the Phillipines would invade Guam.
    2) All the inhabitants of the Falklands Islands are British and carry British passports. The population in those West African countries isn't French (except the few French expatriates etc).
    3) There are no "quotes" in "aggressive. It was a military aggression by the Argentinian military dictatorship in order to gain domestic support as they thought the UK would do nothing.

    So, again -- which "sovereignity" are you saying that France has over Cote d'Ivoire that can be compared to that of the UK over the Falkland Islands, the US's over Guam, or even France's over the French Guinea?

    The answer is: none.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
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