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Thread: Socionics and personal development, (speculation)

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    Default Socionics and personal development, (speculation)

    Is it me or does it seems like each socionic type represents a different disease? I have believed that somehow the goal of an individual is to develop to the point of not having a socionic type. For example, the more negativist, aristocratic, self confident, and static an SLE is, the more he is worse off compared to an SLE who is more mild in these traits.

    I am just interested to see other people’s comments to what they think. This topic will probably be largely speculative.
    "Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat."
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    Follow the middle way, not the extremes...

    I agree, however, I also feel that because of the nature of differentiation itself, the world that we live in and how humans are able to perceive things... it is okay to have a type. It is somewhat like specialization, in that, each type is more efficient at dealing with certain things than other types. I think it is absolutely imperative to understand that you are not just a type, but are a human being, as all people are. And you can insert your own metaphysical ideas there as well.

    I find the more I act like the person I want to be, the more my type shines through -- but it shines through on higher levels. I think the enneagram is somewhat useful in this way, as it shows a presentation of development and regression.

    Seeking balance and self improvement -- and not being afraid, or being ruled by certain inadequacies or fears-- yes, this is important. So it is a mixture of both the unmanifested neutrality, and the manifested differences. I remember seeing it put interesting in Cleary's translation of the Dao De Ching - the greater mystery is not just the unmanifest, but in fact, the mysterious source of both the manifest and the unmanifest.

    I once wrote a post concerning similar matters in Anything goes, but did not go through with posting it. Let me know if you might be interested.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    Default Re: Socionics and personal development, (speculation)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jimbean
    Is it me or does it seems like each socionic type represents a different disease? I have believed that somehow the goal of an individual is to develop to the point of not having a socionic type. For example, the more negativist, aristocratic, self confident, and static an SLE is, the more he is worse off compared to an SLE who is more mild in these traits.

    I am just interested to see other people’s comments to what they think. This topic will probably be largely speculative.
    This seems to be true only in the case of a negativist type. Actually I think that the goal of socionics is generally to become a positivist type.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Default Re: Socionics and personal development, (speculation)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jimbean
    I have believed that somehow the goal of an individual is to develop to the point of not having a socionic type.
    this sounds a bit like, trying to develop to the point at which you don't have a specific gender anymore.

    I think you just have to try not to be to extreme, that's all. like UDP started his post. Types are perfect.

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    Creepy-Diana

    Default Re: Socionics and personal development, (speculation)

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    Default Re: Socionics and personal development, (speculation)

    Quote Originally Posted by Diana
    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    This seems to be true only in the case of a negativist type. Actually I think that the goal of socionics is generally to become a positivist type.
    Hey, someone needs to solve the problems that arise.
    not to mention that if noone's noticing things that are missing, there would be no improvements, neither personal nor social nor technological.
    and how would science have turned out if noone was seeking to falsify claims???
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    I don't understand why people think they need to change their natures and become more like someone else? We're all different, we all have strengths and weaknesses, and that's OK.
    It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slacker Mom
    I don't understand why people think they need to change their natures and become more like someone else? We're all different, we all have strengths and weaknesses, and that's OK.
    think about it.....
    if noone specialized, then we'd all be the same and noone would be better at some things than we are, nor worse at some things than we are. there would be no "categorizing" of people based on preferences/skills, thus "aristocracy" could be dumped and "democracy" could rule!!!
    [insert gagging/puking smilie]
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slacker Mom
    I don't understand why people think they need to change their natures and become more like someone else? We're all different, we all have strengths and weaknesses, and that's OK.
    Because not all people are the same and not all "strengths" are equal. To give a basic example, culture defines desirable and undesirable traits, those with undesirable traits get treated with disrespect, they lose parts of their humanity if they remain themselves. Basically, it's an adaptation to ones surroundings. In other words, one would not do it if it did not bring with itself benefits.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Diana
    Quote Originally Posted by anndelise
    Quote Originally Posted by Slacker Mom
    I don't understand why people think they need to change their natures and become more like someone else? We're all different, we all have strengths and weaknesses, and that's OK.
    think about it.....
    if noone specialized, then we'd all be the same and noone would be better at some things than we are, nor worse at some things than we are. there would be no "categorizing" of people based on preferences/skills, thus "aristocracy" could be dumped and "democracy" could rule!!!
    [insert gagging/puking smilie]
    Sigh. That's not what democracy is about.
    Hmm, here is my take on the democracy vs. aristocracy, written some time ago as a response to somebody, tell me if it matches your experiences

    "Hmm, well I don't actually have a "status" in a "group". In fact when I'm with people I bare no notice of people there but only notice the general atmosphere of it. I don't consider myself a part of anything but a someone who forms with other people a temporary union where the members in it are changeable. I don't personalize myself with the members. I guess you could interpret this as aristocracy but at face value I think it would mean democracy because I really do treat all the members in the union as "just another bolt that makes up the machinery" or all the same. But if democracy is "just another machine made by *the bolts*" then I guess I'm a hard core aristocrat because by default the bolts are all the same to me. (In which case that dichotomy is inverted because it would be the aristocrats that treat the people as all the same, as "just another bolt"). In fact, when we look at it that way it makes a lot of more sense, aristocrats treat all the servant *the same*, as scum and so on because they are looking at the machine they make, the help, which they view as "defective" and thus the bolts are defective. The democrat, on the other hand, looks at the bolts and not the machinery, and for them if the bolts are faulty then the machinery is faulty. They will for example, treat the entire community as bad if one of it's members is say a rapist and so on. In essence it comes down to individualization from generalization (The aristocrat "You are faulty because you belong to a faulty machine") vs. generalization from individualization (The democrat "You machine is faulty because you have faulty members")."

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    Default Re: Socionics and personal development, (speculation)

    Quote Originally Posted by anndelise
    Quote Originally Posted by Diana
    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    This seems to be true only in the case of a negativist type. Actually I think that the goal of socionics is generally to become a positivist type.
    Hey, someone needs to solve the problems that arise.
    not to mention that if noone's noticing things that are missing, there would be no improvements, neither personal nor social nor technological.
    and how would science have turned out if noone was seeking to falsify claims???
    Well in order to become a positivist you have to be a negativist first, so there will always be negativists since also positivists take more risks are die more.


    (ps im bullshitting)
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    I don't think he meant Democracy but Communism.
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    Default Re: Socionics and personal development, (speculation)

    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    Quote Originally Posted by Jimbean
    Is it me or does it seems like each socionic type represents a different disease? I have believed that somehow the goal of an individual is to develop to the point of not having a socionic type. For example, the more negativist, aristocratic, self confident, and static an SLE is, the more he is worse off compared to an SLE who is more mild in these traits.

    I am just interested to see other people’s comments to what they think. This topic will probably be largely speculative.
    This seems to be true only in the case of a negativist type. Actually I think that the goal of socionics is generally to become a positivist type.
    I imagine positivists are more likely to get a lot of rude awakenings, which can't be pleasant at all. They ignore and ignore and ignore until it finally blows up in their face.

    Quote Originally Posted by Slacker Mom
    I don't understand why people think they need to change their natures and become more like someone else? We're all different, we all have strengths and weaknesses, and that's OK.
    Snore NeFi

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    Quote Originally Posted by snegledmaca
    Quote Originally Posted by Slacker Mom
    I don't understand why people think they need to change their natures and become more like someone else? We're all different, we all have strengths and weaknesses, and that's OK.
    Because not all people are the same and not all "strengths" are equal. To give a basic example, culture defines desirable and undesirable traits, those with undesirable traits get treated with disrespect, they lose parts of their humanity if they remain themselves. Basically, it's an adaptation to ones surroundings. In other words, one would not do it if it did not bring with itself benefits.
    yes. this fits in with the idea of new souls and old souls. newer souls have more difficulty fitting in with culturally desireable traits due to the newness of their soul.

    alpha NT: newer souls?

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    Quote Originally Posted by diamond8
    Quote Originally Posted by snegledmaca
    Quote Originally Posted by Slacker Mom
    I don't understand why people think they need to change their natures and become more like someone else? We're all different, we all have strengths and weaknesses, and that's OK.
    Because not all people are the same and not all "strengths" are equal. To give a basic example, culture defines desirable and undesirable traits, those with undesirable traits get treated with disrespect, they lose parts of their humanity if they remain themselves. Basically, it's an adaptation to ones surroundings. In other words, one would not do it if it did not bring with itself benefits.
    yes. this fits in with the idea of new souls and old souls. newer souls have more difficulty fitting in with culturally desireable traits due to the newness of their soul.

    alpha NT: newer souls?
    In danger of sounding like Niffweed, what's all this 'soul' crap?
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    Quote Originally Posted by diamond8
    yes. this fits in with the idea of new souls and old souls. newer souls have more difficulty fitting in with culturally desireable traits due to the newness of their soul.

    alpha NT: newer souls?
    That sounds kind of silly to me. I have always been called an "old soul", especially in middle/high school.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    yeah whateva you two.

    the idea is that a newer soul has to go through more lifetimes so as to learn. an older soul has been through more lifetimes, so is wiser in the sense of understanding the social world of mankind and it's spiritual function.

    whosoever can live in accordance and harmony with the rest of the human race might be perceived as spiritually more highly evolved.

    forget it though, it's just a vague entp idea that i have to refine better.

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    I've been told by a palm reader that I'm an old soul. Whether or not the concept is true (I'm undecided on the matter personally, for several reasons), I doubt it's related to type. One thing I have considered before though, if you do want to continue this line of thought, is that if reincarnation does exist then I theorise that one's type would remain the same through all incarnations.
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    everyone is a new soul.

    what's the definition of a old soul? a soul that has been here, but his memory has wiped out, even his memory about his identity. how can we check if it's an old soul. we can't, we just have to believe it.

    well believe me, i am superman. i can't prove it, but believe it.

    sorry for the sarcasm i just don't believe in that reincarnation shi... uh thing.

    it's just evolved because humans are afraid to die. I'm also afraid to die but not afraid enough to believe in lies.

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