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Thread: When is it ok to lie?

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    Default When is it ok to lie?

    I was reading something the other day that gave a qualification of when lying is permissable. I thought this could give tremendous insight into a person depending on how they responded.

    What is your answer?

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    if its necessary.

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    It depends on the situation. Generally, I think people should be truthful, but there are circumstances where you will hurt a person more by telling them the truth than by lying to them. I would ask myself, "Does this person care? Does this person want to know the truth? If this person knew the truth, would he/she wish he/she didn't know the truth or be glad to know?" It's really something you have to judge on a case-by-case basis.
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    Default Re: When is it ok to lie?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ms. Kensington
    I was reading something the other day that gave a qualification of when lying is permissable. I thought this could give tremendous insight into a person depending on how they responded.

    What is your answer?
    It's NEVER ok to lie.

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    The only time I lie is when I feel the truth would hurt someone. Other than that I don't lie... I just 1) change the subject, 2) pretend I don't know what is going on/being asked, or 3) stop talking.
    EII

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    Generally I would say whenever it actually helps you and you can get away with it.

    But in reality a lot of lies tend to fall on their faces, people fuck up their stories, they act differently, the lies end up not helping and there is always something you didn't see. Long term it just doesn't win you friends and reality always catches up with you, so most of the time it's a good idea to be honest in my opinion.

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    Default Re: When is it ok to lie?

    Quote Originally Posted by machintruc
    Quote Originally Posted by Ms. Kensington
    I was reading something the other day that gave a qualification of when lying is permissable. I thought this could give tremendous insight into a person depending on how they responded.

    What is your answer?
    It's NEVER ok to lie.
    Although I am pretty sure I know your God-given answer I cannot help but ask: "Why?"
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    Default Re: When is it ok to lie?

    Quote Originally Posted by Logos
    Quote Originally Posted by machintruc
    Quote Originally Posted by Ms. Kensington
    I was reading something the other day that gave a qualification of when lying is permissable. I thought this could give tremendous insight into a person depending on how they responded.

    What is your answer?
    It's NEVER ok to lie.
    Although I am pretty sure I know your God-given answer I cannot help but ask: "Why?"
    Because lying is contradicting the Truth.

    God and the Truth is the same thing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rockclimber
    The only time I lie is when I feel the truth would hurt someone. Other than that I don't lie... I just 1) change the subject, 2) pretend I don't know what is going on/being asked, or 3) stop talking.
    I am the opposite way, and I cannot stand it when people lie to me or withhold information from me for "the sake of my feelings".

    People have often asked me to "tell the news" that they were not up to telling someone else... it seems an ideal task to deal with for someone like myself. I imagine IJs are some of the best at it.

    I try to lie as little as possible, but I will not say it never happens. That would be a lie.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    Default Re: When is it ok to lie?

    Quote Originally Posted by Logos
    Quote Originally Posted by machintruc
    Quote Originally Posted by Ms. Kensington
    I was reading something the other day that gave a qualification of when lying is permissable. I thought this could give tremendous insight into a person depending on how they responded.

    What is your answer?
    It's NEVER ok to lie.
    Although I am pretty sure I know your God-given answer I cannot help but ask: "Why?"
    I was wondering about this because I once read a book on lying that said that some religious people interpreted it as permissable to lie only when it would shame the person, and presumably, not harm anyone else, and that was the sole reason. I think it applies if you're in a group of strangers, and they had all have done something and it would publically shame that person but cause no harm to anyone else if he told the truth and said he didn't. So in that case, it is ok to lie. I'll look it up so I can give the exact example, but in the book it was presented as a religious stance, so I assumed there would be more people, maybe some here, who would be familiar with it.

    The book is Lying: Moral Choice in Public and Private Life by Sissela Bok.

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    It seems obvious to me that it's ok to lie in some situations. "Isn't my baby beautiful?" Who would say no? You'd hurt the person more by telling them the truth that the baby is ugly (which indeed some babies are - sorry) than by saying, "Of course she's beautiful!"

    "Did you like the gift I sent?" is another one. Or if I was afraid telling the truth might result in someone getting hurt. Like if someone was acting in a violent manner and asked me where someone was.

    And sometimes I've had people who have wanted to help me with some kind of situation, and I've thought that it would hurt them more to help me than I needed their help, so I'd lie and say it would be easy for me to do it myself.

    A lie about something important, or something that someone would want to know and/or would need to know - I can't think of a situation where it would be OK to lie in those cases.
    It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.
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    Default Re: When is it ok to lie?

    Quote Originally Posted by machintruc
    Quote Originally Posted by Logos
    Quote Originally Posted by machintruc
    Quote Originally Posted by Ms. Kensington
    I was reading something the other day that gave a qualification of when lying is permissable. I thought this could give tremendous insight into a person depending on how they responded.

    What is your answer?
    It's NEVER ok to lie.
    Although I am pretty sure I know your God-given answer I cannot help but ask: "Why?"
    Because lying is contradicting the Truth.

    God and the Truth is the same thing.
    This reminds me of something i heard once about people saying blasphemous things is ok but never to blaspheme against the Holy Spirit?

    Anyway, "never ok" and "wrong" is not the same as "forgivable". Maybe that is a better way to say it.

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    I almost never lie, unless my self-preservation depends on it, and sometimes even not then. I hate it when people lie to me too, especially if it's to save my feelings, as it leads me to think that they have no back-bone and are just looking for the easy way out. If I suck at something, tell me. If I'm doing something wrong, tell me. For God's sake, don't assume that I know what I'm doing!
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    Quote Originally Posted by KSpin
    I almost never lie, unless my self-preservation depends on it, and sometimes even not then. I hate it when people lie to me too, especially if it's to save my feelings, as it leads me to think that they have no back-bone and are just looking for the easy way out. If I suck at something, tell me. If I'm doing something wrong, tell me. For God's sake, don't assume that I know what I'm doing!
    Most types hate to lie, even atheists.

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    as an aside, i would actually say that the baby wasn't beautiful. I would say something like,

    Well, that's an interesting looking baby, for sure! haha.

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    Default Re: When is it ok to lie?

    Quote Originally Posted by machintruc
    Because lying is contradicting the Truth.

    God and the Truth is the same thing.
    2 Chronicles 18:18-22
    18 Micaiah continued, "Therefore hear the word of the LORD : I saw the LORD sitting on his throne with all the host of heaven standing on his right and on his left. 19 And the LORD said, 'Who will entice Ahab king of Israel into attacking Ramoth Gilead and going to his death there?'
    "One suggested this, and another that. 20 Finally, a spirit came forward, stood before the LORD and said, 'I will entice him.'
    " 'By what means?' the LORD asked.

    21 " 'I will go and be a lying spirit in the mouths of all his prophets,' he said.
    " 'You will succeed in enticing him,' said the LORD. 'Go and do it.'

    22 "So now the LORD has put a lying spirit in the mouths of these prophets of yours. The LORD has decreed disaster for you."
    I may have told a few porkies in my time, but I've never created something that lied on my behalf .

    2 Thessalonians 2:9-12
    9The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with the work of Satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders, 10and in every sort of evil that deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. 11For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie 12and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.
    And here, god gives the 'lawless' people a powerful illusion so that they believe he doesn't exist and so are guaranteed to go to hell - even the devil is alleged to believe that god exists - even god uses the same tricks as the devil.

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    Default Re: When is it ok to lie?

    Quote Originally Posted by machintruc
    Quote Originally Posted by Ms. Kensington
    I was reading something the other day that gave a qualification of when lying is permissable. I thought this could give tremendous insight into a person depending on how they responded.

    What is your answer?
    It's NEVER ok to lie.
    Lies.

    When it is ok to lie? It depends on the situation really. Sometimes you have to, to soften the truth. Err, too many possible situations to list.
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    LOL yeah I would probably try to avoid it all together. "Wow she sure takes after her daddy!"
    It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.
    -Mark Twain


    You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.

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    Quote Originally Posted by machintruc
    Quote Originally Posted by KSpin
    I almost never lie, unless my self-preservation depends on it, and sometimes even not then. I hate it when people lie to me too, especially if it's to save my feelings, as it leads me to think that they have no back-bone and are just looking for the easy way out. If I suck at something, tell me. If I'm doing something wrong, tell me. For God's sake, don't assume that I know what I'm doing!
    Most types hate to lie, even atheists.
    But then it's like. There are more ways to be dishonest than to lie, you know? Personally, I think there are few things in this world that I hate more than lies.

    But then it's always something I want to explore further. Hence, the thread.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ms. Kensington
    as an aside, i would actually say that the baby wasn't beautiful. I would say something like,

    Well, that's an interesting looking baby, for sure! haha.
    Haa. If I were caught in that situation, I'd just smile and nod.
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    Quote Originally Posted by machintruc
    Quote Originally Posted by KSpin
    I almost never lie, unless my self-preservation depends on it, and sometimes even not then. I hate it when people lie to me too, especially if it's to save my feelings, as it leads me to think that they have no back-bone and are just looking for the easy way out. If I suck at something, tell me. If I'm doing something wrong, tell me. For God's sake, don't assume that I know what I'm doing!
    Most types hate to lie, even atheists.
    I see no relation that this has to the subject.
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    Help me leave behind some reasons to be missed."

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    Quote Originally Posted by machintruc
    Quote Originally Posted by KSpin
    I almost never lie, unless my self-preservation depends on it, and sometimes even not then. I hate it when people lie to me too, especially if it's to save my feelings, as it leads me to think that they have no back-bone and are just looking for the easy way out. If I suck at something, tell me. If I'm doing something wrong, tell me. For God's sake, don't assume that I know what I'm doing!
    Most types hate to lie, even atheists.
    Stop lying!
    INTp
    sx/sp

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    I thought of another case where I might lie. If someone asked me something, and the honest answer might lead to a long discussion and/or argument, and to say "that's none of your business" would lead to an argument, and if it honestly were none of their business, I might vaguely lie to end the discussion. I don't feel like I'm under an obligation to tell people the truth if they ask about something that doesn't concern them.
    It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diana

    My responses:
    about the baby:

    I'd say, "She looks just like you!" and I'd be grinning ear to ear. They'd know exactly what I meant by my response but wouldn't be able to prove I'd said anything mean. hehehe.
    exactly, the deception is when the other person is not clear on your meaning. In this response the other person knows exactly what you mean.

    But I think Ti types don't like contradiction so it would further motivate them not to utter lies, or pure contradictions.

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    Diana, yeah you can be vague and say you appreciate the gift, and I do that too, but sometimes people ask very specific questions. "Have you worn the shirt I sent you?" I might say yes and it looked lovely rather than have to explain why I haven't worn it. It doesn't hurt someone else to tell them you've worn something they sent, and it's more important that they feel good than that I feel tell the truth, IMO.
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    I don't lie to soften the truth; I lie to salvage the truth.

    Here's what I mean:

    I lie to my parents about many of the things I do/don't do. I've kept my smoking cigarettes a secret for five years and it's really been taxing to hide it. However, I have a good reason for lying about it. In my mind, smoking does not define me. It is not all that important to my existence. My parents are legalistic fundamentalists. They take smoking very seriously. Because of the obvious discrepancy between the way my parents and I view smoking, I see no reason to reveal the truth to them. It would cause them to think of me as something I certainly am not. In the interest of trying to maintain whatever semblance of my genuine self they currently know, I will continue to lie about whatever fits under the same category as smoking cigarettes. My true self (who doesn't condemn people for smoking or allow smoking to change my view about another person), is the more global truth in this sense. I protect that greater truth by lying about the measly act of smoking.

    It's all about hierarchies of truth.
    whenever the dog and i see each other we both stop where we are. we regard each other with a mixture of sadness and suspicion and then we feign indifference.

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    Default Re: When is it ok to lie?

    Quote Originally Posted by machintruc
    Quote Originally Posted by Logos
    Quote Originally Posted by machintruc
    Quote Originally Posted by Ms. Kensington
    I was reading something the other day that gave a qualification of when lying is permissable. I thought this could give tremendous insight into a person depending on how they responded.

    What is your answer?
    It's NEVER ok to lie.
    Although I am pretty sure I know your God-given answer I cannot help but ask: "Why?"
    Because lying is contradicting the Truth.

    God and the Truth is the same thing.
    So if I did not believe in God, and lied by saying that I believed in God, then I would thereby be contradicting God the Truth by saying that I do believe in God? Ummmm...paradox...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ms. Kensington
    as an aside, i would actually say that the baby wasn't beautiful. I would say something like,

    Well, that's an interesting looking baby, for sure! haha.
    Better yet just say, "Wow, the baby looks just like its father."
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ms. Kensington
    as an aside, i would actually say that the baby wasn't beautiful. I would say something like,

    Well, that's an interesting looking baby, for sure! haha.
    i'm laughing so hard.


    "that is one ugly fucking baby."


    i find it hard to lie as well yet a lot of times it's really preferable. like reyn_til_runa's example of smoking cigarettes. i would likely lie about similar things (to my mom, not my dad, as he generally does not give a shit and we seem to have full agreement on what major lies and minor lies really are.) my reasoning is that it does generally make my life easier, and i agree that some things which are so tiny there's no reason to even bring them up or tell the truth about them.
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    Way to be MsK - I will back you on that one. I never in my life have said "Wow, that is a beautiful baby!", and I do not intend to do so. I will leave that to my dual, and if we ever generate an offspring.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    Quote Originally Posted by UDP III
    Way to be MsK - I will back you on that one. I never in my life have said "Wow, that is a beautiful baby!", and I do not intend to do so. I will leave that to my dual, and if we ever generate an offspring.
    Again, you do not have to lie about the baby's appearance. There are ways around it. The baby could be the ugliest baby on the planet, but if you just say that the kid looks just like one of the parents (who are probably ugly themselves), and they think that you are giving the kid and them a complement while you tell the truthfulness of the kid's ugliness to their face.
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    I usually just smile and nod (not in a sarcastic way). If they know anything about me they understand that such is a sufficient amount of acknowledgment from me. "Oh, he/she looks nice" is something i have said before.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    If someone shows me an ugly baby I just say "aawww" and smile. Then I will proceed to hold the child, and of course, offer my babysitting services... which people rarely take me up on.
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    I had a g/f once that thought it was always OK to lie because she didn't want to hurt my feelings about different stuff.
    EVERY single time I caught her in something I'd be like pretty much pulling my hair out because I'd much rather be told the truth about something than finding out later that something was true and I was lied to about it. This type of behavior was a contributing factor to the end of that relationship to say the least...lol

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    I think I need you to babysit my cat, rockclimber.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    when?
    EII

    I'll tell you what
    there is plenty wrong with me
    but I fixed up a few old buildings
    and I've planted a few trees.

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    During the later summer. Let me know when you have a weekend available, so I can make plans. It is not so often you can find a good cat-babysitter.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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