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Thread: Visiting Beta Quadra

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    Default Visiting Beta Quadra

    Hello Betas.

    I am be stopping by for a week to observe and understand Betas. I am particularly interested in understanding Beta culture, and also, for myself, understanding LSIs somewhat and your experience with them. Hopefully the "Beta Field Guide" can be useful, and I will go through the "Your experience with ISTjs" thread.

    Also, I would ask each Beta Quadra member here to explain their relationship with the other Quadras, particularly the Delta Quadra, as they are supposedly opposite from you. (edit - and talk about intra-beta interaction as well, if you are up for it).

    Your insights and observations will be useful.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    Hi UDP,

    I'm sorry, I can't really help you with relationships with other quadras. However, as I'm LSI, if you want to ask me any questions, feel free to do so or to PM me if you want.

    Kind regards,
    Five/Tanzhe

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    yeah, if you expect people to just give you explanations just because you asked this will be a very shortlived thread

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    from toronto with love ScarlettLux's Avatar
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    Oh, UDP, you greatly amuse me.

    It might be fun having you here as a visitor. Well, relationships with other quadras eh.. ?

    Alpha: I've had quite a bit of experience with this quadra and can't particularly say I find it too enjoyable. It's alright, to a degree, for fun and kicks. They lack a certain intensity though, and ESFjs can seriously grate on my nerves. Plus, when an ENTp, INTj & ISFp discuss politics... oh my god *slits wrists* Most boring thing ever.. the ISFp doesn't totally participate though. It's mostly the former two debating while I'm there sleeping. They don't seem to be into my kind of "fun."

    Gamma: I can say I quite like Gammas, especially ESFps & INTps. I've gotten used to hanging around a few close ESFp friends and adore their Se. We have lots of fun together. INTps I've also gotten used to.. although they are much too -___- all the time, I like to liven them up, shake them up a bit and get them motivated. They're very interesting too. ENTjs seem cool ideally, but I haven't had any experience with them in RL. ISFjs.. not the best type for me to get along with but overall, Gamma is pretty good.

    Delta: Uhh, can anyone say boring? The only type here that manages to spruce things up a bit are ENFps but I have had quite bad relationships with them in the past (romantic AND otherwise) because we seem to see eachother as inferior. Truly, I see them as being very wishy washy and not motivated, not valuing Se obviously. The lack of Ti grates too. ENFps are actually a bit too diplomatic for my taste, as is this entire quadra. Along with Alphas too! These both don't like confrontations and are likely to keep the peace.. whereareas I like to stir things up and be straight up with everything, even though it might be controversial. I enjoy the drama. They don't.


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    Quote Originally Posted by ScarlettLux
    Along with Alphas too! These both don't like confrontations and are likely to keep the peace.. whereareas I like to stir things up and be straight up with everything, even though it might be controversial. I enjoy the drama. They don't.
    ?? do you ever talk to entp's and intj's? most are not at all afraid to confront. anything.

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

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    Quote Originally Posted by Five
    Hi UDP,

    I'm sorry, I can't really help you with relationships with other quadras. However, as I'm LSI, if you want to ask me any questions, feel free to do so or to PM me if you want.

    Kind regards,
    Hello

    One question for now (there will likely be others) is, how did/do you determine what to focus on? What is Ti - important to you? Was it something from your culture or family? How do you base your reality and life, what is the inspiration?
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScarlettLux
    Oh, UDP, you greatly amuse me.

    It might be fun having you here as a visitor. Well, relationships with other quadras eh.. ?
    Why not describe beta as well, while your at it, so I know more of what you are comparing your remarks on other quadras to.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    Quote Originally Posted by diamond8
    Quote Originally Posted by ScarlettLux
    Along with Alphas too! These both don't like confrontations and are likely to keep the peace.. whereareas I like to stir things up and be straight up with everything, even though it might be controversial. I enjoy the drama. They don't.
    ?? do you ever talk to entp's and intj's? most are not at all afraid to confront. anything.
    Especially if they think you are stupid they will say anything.

    But if they think you are too stupid to really be worth talking to, then they might not even bother. (......)
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScarlettLux
    Along with Alphas too! These both don't like confrontations and are likely to keep the peace.. whereareas I like to stir things up and be straight up with everything, even though it might be controversial. I enjoy the drama. They don't.
    I do not mind confrontation as long as it is something that is really important.
    I am more straight up than most people I know, and yet I do not cause drama, generally.

    Beta NFs like to use that sort of a statement it seems, when defending their actions. An ENFj friend said these words nearly verbatim: "whereareas I like to.. be straight up with everything, even though it might be controversial", when discussing her family. What I do not like about her family is that every time I went over there, they were playing games, and getting into petty squabbles about trivial matters. I eventually refused playing games completely, as that is not how I relax. Betas seem strange to me in that they "relax" by being aggressive to each other... particularly when they proceed to complain about it afterwards, and wonder why there is strife and they cannot relax. That is what makes me wonder about really being beta, although I wonder if it is just a lack of real Ti understanding on the part of Betas. LSIs are remarkably unaware of this, in my direct experience.

    They are completely unaware of the baggage they bring into situations. However, the remedy is getting them to understand the value of what is going on, and why their minds are producing the results they are witnessing. Even then, however, I wonder if they will appreciate the understanding, or if dramatics is just the essential part of beta life. "Art for the sake of art", as they say.

    Finally, it seems that the LSI in general is not flawed in its execution, but rather, its focus - Ni hidden agenda, Ne polr. When they are focused on something that is truly important, and not just pandering to their own personal wants and desires, then their regimented attitude is most useful. Otherwise, it is having the right process and mechanics, but all wasted on trivial things... which is most disappointing for anyone who values . --- I suppose in this way they need their high minded dual the most.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    Quote Originally Posted by UDP III
    One question for now (there will likely be others) is, how did/do you determine what to focus on? What is Ti - important to you? Was it something from your culture or family? How do you base your reality and life, what is the inspiration?
    That's a tough one

    I'm not sure whether I fully understand you, but I think that you're talking about Big Picture life priorities, and what my 'stance' is regarding life and its challenges. If you are, then this is my answer:-

    In a way, this is what I'm asking myself at the moment - what are my priorities in life?

    I know that I'm seeking something. It's something beyond the mundane or typical. In a way, I don't determine what to focus on. It's just naturally a part of me. I think that it's better to let your life focus to come naturally, rather than 'choosing' it or 'appointing' it as your life focus.

    And, what comes naturally to me? At this time, it's finding this 'thing'. It's something spiritual, that I know. I think it might well be to find God - Spiritual Truth, whatever that Truth might be. Call it a "thirst for God". It's also about becoming a certain kind of person - quite who, I don't know. But I 'know' it from 'feeling' it.

    I also think that I want to love someone. Deeply and truly care for them - and them caring for me too.

    I think I've got this more from within myself, rather than from my culture or family.

    Part of me also wants to 'play my role in life' - to accomplish something significant. In a recent post, I talked about being moved by heroism - these 'desires' are somewhat linked.


    I would admit that I'm being really quite vague. I'm very sorry (I feel a little useless now) -- but your question is actually one that, when you stop and think, is quite difficult to answer. It's a 'feeling', not a 'logical phenomenon'.

    Hmm :wink:

    I honestly hoped that this has helped - and I do hope that you’ll also have some more questions. Bring ‘em on

    Yours,
    Five/Tanzhe

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    from toronto with love ScarlettLux's Avatar
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    Ugh. UDP, stop trying to covertly tell me I'm stupid.

    I'm not.

    Look at all the stereotypical Beta traits you're giving our Quadra. Why can't I share some of my experiences with Alpha? Seriously, IME, Alphas hate confrontation. I've read in many places that Alphas are the quadra that most highly enjoys a smooth, happy atmosphere all the time... this goes for trying to please everyone... as ESFjs/ISFps tend to do in their peacemaking/caregiving ways. Which also means that conflict, even when necessary (in the eyes of a Beta) goes unheard of


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    Quote Originally Posted by ScarlettLux
    Look at all the stereotypical Beta traits you're giving our Quadra. Why can't I share some of my experiences with Alpha? Seriously, IME, Alphas hate confrontation. I've read in many places that Alphas are the quadra that most highly enjoys a smooth, happy atmosphere all the time... this goes for trying to please everyone... as ESFjs/ISFps tend to do in their peacemaking/caregiving ways. Which also means that conflict, even when necessary (in the eyes of a Beta) goes unheard of
    noooo....Alpha SF's are the ones who don't like conflict. the NT's don't care. that's why we need the SF's, because without them, things could get pretty tense!

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScarlettLux
    Ugh. UDP, stop trying to covertly tell me I'm stupid.

    I'm not.
    I thought that would come across as endearing in Beta-speak. I will try again some other time.

    Look at all the stereotypical Beta traits you're giving our Quadra. Why can't I share some of my experiences with Alpha? Seriously, IME, Alphas hate confrontation. I've read in many places that Alphas are the quadra that most highly enjoys a smooth, happy atmosphere all the time... this goes for trying to please everyone... as ESFjs/ISFps tend to do in their peacemaking/caregiving ways. Which also means that conflict, even when necessary (in the eyes of a Beta) goes unheard of
    Perhaps you could explain when conflict is necessary?

    I believe i know what you mean however --- (recent example)an ISTj is confronting and pressing an ISFp, and the ISFp really wants to say something, but for the sake of the alpha peace, it does not. When really, however, the ISTj is looking for someone to get angry to sort of 'demonstrate' (Fe) that the ISTj is reaching a boundary?

    I am not sure if those were the specific motivations, but that is what took place. It is not that the ISTj was being bad, but it was more just searching for an acceptable boundary, and seeing no adequate (Fe) resistance, it felt it necessary to press forward -- what do you think about that? And so in this way, the beta conflict-orientated style was not meshing well with the alpha style.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Five
    ....
    In a way, this is what I'm asking myself at the moment - what are my priorities in life?

    I know that I'm seeking something. It's something beyond the mundane or typical. In a way, I don't determine what to focus on. It's just naturally a part of me. I think that it's better to let your life focus to come naturally, rather than 'choosing' it or 'appointing' it as your life focus.

    And, what comes naturally to me? At this time, it's finding this 'thing'. It's something spiritual, that I know. I think it might well be to find God - Spiritual Truth, whatever that Truth might be. Call it a "thirst for God". It's also about becoming a certain kind of person - quite who, I don't know. But I 'know' it from 'feeling' it.

    I also think that I want to love someone. Deeply and truly care for them - and them caring for me too.

    I think I've got this more from within myself, rather than from my culture or family.

    Part of me also wants to 'play my role in life' - to accomplish something significant. In a recent post, I talked about being moved by heroism - these 'desires' are somewhat linked.
    ...
    Your response did help a great deal, thank you.

    I can relate very much to what you say. I think a problem I have, which comes from being more intuitively based, is that I spend so much time trying to figure everything out ahead of time that I do not let things come naturally enough.

    Good luck with everything. I will post more questions when I come across them.

    PS: (Hmm, I can hear that IJ negativist creeping back into some posts)
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    Quote Originally Posted by UDP III
    Your response did help a great deal, thank you.
    My pleasure.

    Quote Originally Posted by UDP III
    I can relate very much to what you say. I think a problem I have, which comes from being more intuitively based, is that I spend so much time trying to figure everything out ahead of time that I do not let things come naturally enough.
    I can identify with this - is this a Ti-specific thing? Look here: http://www.socionics.us/practice/spirituality.shtml

    Ti
    Innate spiritual aspiration - adherence to Truth
    Practical manifestations - diligently follow a true spiritual system with guaranteed spiritual benefit


    Does that sound familiar?

    Quote Originally Posted by UDP III
    Good luck with everything. I will post more questions when I come across them.
    Thank you very much However, if you do have some more questions, from next Sunday onwards for a week I might be very slow in responding. But I'll try my best to help a fellow Brother in the Knighthood of Seekers of Light and Truth. :wink:

    All the best,
    Five/Tanzhe

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    Quote Originally Posted by diamond8
    Quote Originally Posted by ScarlettLux
    Look at all the stereotypical Beta traits you're giving our Quadra. Why can't I share some of my experiences with Alpha? Seriously, IME, Alphas hate confrontation. I've read in many places that Alphas are the quadra that most highly enjoys a smooth, happy atmosphere all the time... this goes for trying to please everyone... as ESFjs/ISFps tend to do in their peacemaking/caregiving ways. Which also means that conflict, even when necessary (in the eyes of a Beta) goes unheard of
    noooo....Alpha SF's are the ones who don't like conflict. the NT's don't care. that's why we need the SF's, because without them, things could get pretty tense!
    Yeah and

    "These both don't like confrontations and are likely to keep the peace.. whereareas I like to stir things up and be straight up with everything, even though it might be controversial. I enjoy the drama. They don't."

    it's not because they don't like to be straight, it's because they (I at least) don't think it's worth it. If they don't care, they aren't letting people walk over them because there is no power struggle from the perspective of the alpha, where there might be one perceived by the Beta. The things they think are worth arguing about would be very different than Betans. Betanoids.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScarlettLux
    Ugh. UDP, stop trying to covertly tell me I'm stupid.

    I'm not.

    Look at all the stereotypical Beta traits you're giving our Quadra. Why can't I share some of my experiences with Alpha? Seriously, IME, Alphas hate confrontation. I've read in many places that Alphas are the quadra that most highly enjoys a smooth, happy atmosphere all the time... this goes for trying to please everyone... as ESFjs/ISFps tend to do in their peacemaking/caregiving ways. Which also means that conflict, even when necessary (in the eyes of a Beta) goes unheard of
    That sounds more like the patriarchal Delta, who are peacemakers and pragmatists for the stability of .
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    Quote Originally Posted by Five
    Quote Originally Posted by UDP III
    Your response did help a great deal, thank you.
    My pleasure.

    Quote Originally Posted by UDP III
    I can relate very much to what you say. I think a problem I have, which comes from being more intuitively based, is that I spend so much time trying to figure everything out ahead of time that I do not let things come naturally enough.
    I can identify with this - is this a Ti-specific thing? Look here: http://www.socionics.us/practice/spirituality.shtml

    Ti
    Innate spiritual aspiration - adherence to Truth
    Practical manifestations - diligently follow a true spiritual system with guaranteed spiritual benefit


    Does that sound familiar?

    Quote Originally Posted by UDP III
    Good luck with everything. I will post more questions when I come across them.
    Thank you very much However, if you do have some more questions, from next Sunday onwards for a week I might be very slow in responding. But I'll try my best to help a fellow Brother in the Knighthood of Seekers of Light and Truth. :wink:

    All the best,
    Without doubt, that does sound familiar.
    Peace.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    I'm going to make my reply a continuous one, because I'll likely think of new insights as time passes and want to relay these insights to you accordingly. Here goes:

    Betas seem strange to me in that they "relax" by being aggressive to each other... particularly when they proceed to complain about it afterwards, and wonder why there is strife and they cannot relax.
    I am an intense person in all facets of the word. I think intensely, feel intensely, laugh intensely, and imagine intensely. In my day-to-day matters, however, I have to bottle all of this intensity inside to peacefully co-exist with others. I, like most people, can't always be "myself". And while I often put up a complacent and happy facade, inside I'm usually laughing or fuming at the absurdity of the world, yet I choose not to express this because I know I'll likely offend or frighten others.

    When I'm around my trusted and loved ones, however, things change. I'll curse, talk out loud to myself, laugh at and tease my friends, and just say whatever's on my mind to blow off steam. And I have fun doing it. I only do it around people who know I'm kidding, though, because I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings. Case in point: I was hanging out with my ESTp friend the other night while he was dancing and carrying on foolishly. In response to his shenanigans, I said to him, "note to self, pick up Bill's muscle relaxants at CVS on my way home." He sneered at me. Then I said, "Oh, I'm sorry, you get your muscle relaxants from the sketchy guy in the dark alley." I don't know, but I just love teasing people. I think that being able to laugh at your own quirks and at other people's quirks is a great relief, because, as Lincoln said, if I didn't laugh, I'd have to cry. Also, I think it just shows how close you are to someone if you can say those things to them and know they won't be hurt because they know you're kidding. It's like you're on the same wavelength: you can be totally open and honest with one another without fear of retribution, while having fun at the same time (I'm an adrenaline junkie, so I crave excitement).

    I think that the "aggression" you observe in Betas is just them letting it all hang out. I don't know if this is a quadra value or not, but I believe that self-repression is one of the most damaging things a person can do to him or herself. You need to find an environment in which you can be wild and crazy without being judged, and for many Betas, that's home.
    Then again, this type of thing isn't just a Beta trait. I got my tendency to tease others from my ENTj father, and my ESFp friend teases me mercilessly (I like it though, haha). So yeah, I don't know if the aggression you're describing is [i] exclusively [i] Beta.

    I'm going to write the rest of my response in another post because this one was obscenely long.
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    That makes sense though. I find it amazing how different people can deal with things legitimately in different ways. Without understanding it all, I would just be wondering what is going on, but it does help to hear it from someone like yourself. It is really like a different culture, another country or something. But knowing that, I can appreciate it more, even if it is not how I personally go about things.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    Ramble on...

    Quadra relations:

    DISCLAIMER: I don't get along with all individuals of the same type equally. Yes, I know I'm stating the obvious.

    Alpha
    I seem to get along with Alphas the best . I have a few INTj friends whom I find rip-roaringly hilarious in their calm, sarcastic, understated way. I also value their insight and unconventional view on things. They seem to like my , and I feel really upbeat and alive around them for some reason. I count two of my favorite friends as INTj. Things get tense, however, when they become angry and start demeaning others. They can also be drama queens when it comes to romance, which has always baffled me.
    I like ISFps a lot as well. My best friend is ISFp, and she's the best person on earth: sweet, loyal, crazy, and always willing to try something new. She's the only ISFp I've been close to, however, because some of them strike me as too clingy and too guarded. I know that sounds like a contradiction, but a lot of them waver between devoting themselves to you completely or shutting themselves off (esp. if they don't know you well).
    ENTps: I like ENTps a lot more than I should. I think ENTp is by far the funniest type, and the weirdest type. They can be incredibly mean, though, and I've been on the receiving end of that meanness once, which I hope never happens again. But for the most part, they're fun to hang out with, just not good for romantic relationships. I wish I knew more.
    ESFjs: I like most ESFjs - one of my closest friends is ESFj, and he would lie down in traffic for his friends. Most of them are intensely loyal, loving, and funny, but some get on my nerves with their obsession with insignificant details, moralizing, and tendency to gossip. I also have an ESFj manager whom I want to smack, but that's another story.

    Beta
    Despite this being my quadra, I don't know many betas. I had one close friend who was my Activity partner (ISTj), but we parted ways after I realized how sketchy he was. I do like ISTjs,. however, because they're pretty relaxed and funny people whom I can be open around. It's great when we can get into verbal sparring matches and I can put the kibosh on their crassness.
    INFps: Mutual respect, but not much else. I like them, but we don't have much to offer one another because, well, we're looking for someone to give us what we don't already have. A lot of them have problems with histrionics (including yours truly), which gets old quickly.
    ESTps: Want to kiss and smack them at the same time. They're fun, passionate, tough, and street smart, but also incredibly hedonistic and capricious (they won't stay in one place for more than five minutes). We have a great time being crazy around one another and occasionally having a serious conversation, but it doesn't go much further than that. I've resigned myself to never having an ESTp as a close friend or romantic partner because they're unreliable, easily bored, and always moving around. Take what I said with a grain of salt, however, because I'm slightly bitter.
    ENFjs: Once again, hit or miss. The best ENFjs are the best ever. We always have something to talk about, especially of an intense emotional nature, and it's never a burden for them to discuss psychological or interpersonal issues. On the negative side, some tend to be smothering, overly dramatic, and uptight. But I love them all the same.

    Gamma
    Okay, I'm tired of writing detailed descriptions of my relationships with each type (and I'm sure you're tired of reading them), so I'm going to generalize from this point forward.
    Most Gammas and I get along okay, but I LOVE LOVE LOVE ESFps. They're such passionate, entertaining, and daring people, and they give me the opportunity to [i]live[i] life instead of just daydreaming about it. We can go on a crazy road trip and have a meaningful discussion about life at the same time. Marvelous! Then again, they tend to be a bit capricious like the other types. But don't we all?
    I'm iffy with ENTjs, INTps, and ISFjs. I don't know many that well, and I guess that says a lot about what I (and they) look for in others.
    :Edit: My relationships with INTps can be mildly good or mildly bad. I seem to get along with the males better because we can joke around with one another without it looking like a cat fight. They're usually quite funny, too. I don't get along with the females well, though, because they're unresponsive to , which doesn't help our relations much.

    Delta
    ESTj: We make good first impressions upon each other, but that's about it. They're easy to get along with and very polite... until it all hits the fan. They scare me with their high expectations; I'm always afraid I'll screw up in front of them, and I need someone who tolerates others' mistakes. I also can't be around someone who's straight-laced and tradition-oriented, because I'm a crazy, disobedient iconoclast.
    ENFp: This is the most difficult and tragic relationship for me. ENFp is everything I want in a human being; someone who's loving, outgoing, creative, crazy, and spontaneous. Problem is, we just can't talk to one another, and I don't know why. It's like looking into a mirror and trying to touch your reflection, only to realize that it's glass instead of a human being. To me, an ENFp is a beautiful painting; you can admire its qualities from afar, but it will never be real to you. I know I went overboard with the drama here, but two of my closest relationships (and subsequent breakups) were with ENFps, so they've had a huge impact upon me.
    ISTp: I wish I could be more like them, I really do (if anything so that I could be ENFp's dual). I admire their calmness under pressure, their strength, their ability to get things done, and their air of mystery. Problem is, I can't express my around them without making them uncomfortable, and they're tough to read. In general, though, ISTp = coolness.
    INFjs: amazing people, but a bit too strict and moralistic for me. They also don't seem to like , so I can't offer them much in that regard. I also feel like everything I do offends them (is this my dual seeking crying out?).

    There, I'm finally done. Hope this helped.

    ver and out:
    INFp, Intuitive subtype, Enneagram 6w5
    Back in school and on semi-permanent hiatus from the forum

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    Quote Originally Posted by uninspired
    Alpha
    I seem to get along with Alphas the best . I have a few INTj friends whom I find rip-roaringly hilarious in their calm, sarcastic, understated way. I also value their insight and unconventional view on things. They seem to like my , and I feel really upbeat and alive around them for some reason. I count two of my favorite friends as INTj. Things get tense, however, when they become angry and start demeaning others. They can also be drama queens when it comes to romance, which has always baffled me.
    It is because we, or I, have absolutely no idea how someone relates to me, and when my feelings are at stake and I am emotionally involved, I am at my most incompetent state. This is terribly odd and usually painful, especially because it floods the entire IJ state. If there is any way that I would concede to needing a caregiver it would be this. Relationships, especially uncertainty, can throw off my entire sense of balance. This is why LIIs can be notoriously emotionally distant. I am that way, not necessarily intentionally. There has been nothing more gutwrenching than liking someone and getting emotionally attached, and having no reciprocation. It is also one of the things that makes me wary about ESEs, because they are emotionally expressive to everyone - so how can I tell if it is genuine when it comes to me?

    Again, I can diagnose relationships with ease, and I have helped a lot of people come to understand things. But when it comes to myself, I have a hard enough time to relating to people in a human way as it is. Having 'warm relationship' is not something I am inclined to do.

    For improving myself, however, it has come through reinforcing Ti, and setting the program ahead of time of how I am to react to people. I refered to it as "controlling the emotional atmosphere" in the past here. Basically, I just have to play my game my way, (confidence), and everyone else's cards fall where they do. Not being attached to any expectation, things can happen naturally, and I have nothing to suffer about.


    I like ISFps a lot as well. My best friend is ISFp, and she's the best person on earth: sweet, loyal, crazy, and always willing to try something new. She's the only ISFp I've been close to, however, because some of them strike me as too clingy and too guarded. I know that sounds like a contradiction, but a lot of them waver between devoting themselves to you completely or shutting themselves off (esp. if they don't know you well).
    Yeah, I felt that from an ISFp. It is odd, because I see them acting warm to other people, and when I make my (surely inadequate) efforts to associate with them, it usually does not show any positive result
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

  23. #23
    Exits, pursued by a bear. Animal's Avatar
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    Alpha:
    Best attribute: They're visionaries.
    Achilles' Heel: Pedantry.

    ENTps: They come across as more verbally abusive ESTps to me.
    INTjs: Generally my favorite type of this quadra - always fascinating to talk with, can offer sage and well-tempered advice/insight on any given number of topics without the miscommunication I associate with Te-types.
    ISFps: Generally very cool people. Usually very keen eye for aesthetic, which is refreshing; can be very sexy, very chummy.
    ESFjs: Some I admire, others I despise. Those I admire are highly active people - definitely get around, living in interesting places, meeting amazing people, doing exciting things. Those I despise tend towards shallow, insecure, and gabby <- will not shut up.

    Beta:
    Best attribute: Share my understanding of the world.
    Achilles' Heel: Deep-rooted insecurity.

    ESTps: I like how they become all smiley and giggly around me. I find it cute. I admire their fortitude, but can fully identify with them when they admit to feeling out-of-place, listless, or angry/down-and-out.
    INFps: I despise 99% of my identicals with a loathing that amounts to absolute detestation. (Points to whoever can get that reference.) They can be avoidant, insecure, garrulous, pretentious, and emotionally abusive. The remaining 1% mean all the world to me; sweet, genuine, funny, intelligent people with a penchant for good music, dark places, and big words.
    ISTjs: Very easy to talk to - like the ISTjs, although slightly more reticent. Can become a little loud, but this is forgiveable if they be a large, busty, black woman.
    ENFjs: Half make me very happy. These are the intelligent, capable, practical, and sensitive variety. They other half drive me insane - they seem to imagine conflict where none exists.

    Gamma
    Best attribute: Motivational.
    Achilles' Heel: Close-mindedness.

    INTps: My second favorite type of this quadra - I find them witty, pragmatic, and generally very cool people. I often get the feeling I bore/dissapoint them in interaction, however, so I try to only speak to them at the top of my game. Can be frustratingly close-minded, but can be reasoned with.
    ENTjs: Confident, self-assured people - perhaps a bit too much so. They tend to become entrenched in their own (conception of the) world, such that they are not able to comprehend further possibilities or other conceptions like ENTps do instinctively.
    ISFjs: Come in two varieties, generally: the prissy variety and the arrogant but insecure variety. Of the two, the prissy variety tends to be easier for me to get along with.
    ESFps: My favorite type of this quadra - I often confuse them with the less annoying ENFjs. Generally encouraging, giving, sometimes loud and assumptuous people. They tend to look at me expectantly, though... what they're waiting for, I can't tell. Probably something their dual can do but I can't. They make me wish I could do what they need me to do. Usually get exhausted of each other and move on with fond impressions.

    Delta
    Best attribute: Practicality.
    Achilles' Heel: Practicality.

    INFjs: Good people. Pretty eyes. Can be somewhat close-minded, however.
    ESTjs: Decent people. I feel like I dissapoint, them, though so I end up very uncomfortable.
    ISTps: Very nice people, though can sometimes ramble and talk past me or over my head or somewhere other than directly to me.
    ENFps: My favorites from this quadra. We get along well, usually.
    "How could we forget those ancient myths that stand at the beginning of all races, the myths about dragons that at the last moment are transformed into princesses? Perhaps all the dragons in our lives are princesses who are only waiting to see us act, just once, with beauty and courage. Perhaps everything that frightens us is, in its deepest essence, something helpless that wants our love."
    -- Rainer Maria Rilke, Letters to a Young Poet

  24. #24
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    @uninspired: ouch at the entp mean thing. FWIW yes i know i can be mean. it's usually when i'm at maximum frustration and exhaustion and i need some Si. sorry to you and everybody else on the planet that's been on the receiving end of this.

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

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    I'm sorry; I didn't mean to offend you or make a snap judgment. In truth, the only bad stuff I've experienced w/ ENTps has come about due to romantic problems, but for the most part they're very warm, funny, and easy to get along with. Also, most of my experiences have been with male ENTps, and they're very different from female ENTps.

    *hugs*
    No hard feelings
    INFp, Intuitive subtype, Enneagram 6w5
    Back in school and on semi-permanent hiatus from the forum

  26. #26
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    no hard feelings this way either! you raised my awareness of a potential problem i could have in relationships, so it's all good

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

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    When I'm around my trusted and loved ones, however, things change. I'll curse, talk out loud to myself, laugh at and tease my friends, and just say whatever's on my mind to blow off steam. And I have fun doing it. I only do it around people who know I'm kidding, though, because I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings. Case in point: I was hanging out with my ESTp friend the other night while he was dancing and carrying on foolishly. In response to his shenanigans, I said to him, "note to self, pick up Bill's muscle relaxants at CVS on my way home." He sneered at me. Then I said, "Oh, I'm sorry, you get your muscle relaxants from the sketchy guy in the dark alley." I don't know, but I just love teasing people. I think that being able to laugh at your own quirks and at other people's quirks is a great relief, because, as Lincoln said, if I didn't laugh, I'd have to cry. Also, I think it just shows how close you are to someone if you can say those things to them and know they won't be hurt because they know you're kidding. It's like you're on the same wavelength: you can be totally open and honest with one another without fear of retribution, while having fun at the same time (I'm an adrenaline junkie, so I crave excitement).
    this is totally why i like beta, i think. and i feel like i am this way also. but i'm not beta! go figure....

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

  28. #28
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    Here, another question:

    If I am in an argument with a beta, can I bitch them out and yell at them extensively, pointing out why they are wrong?
    One LSI I know is really pushing it, and it seems almost like that is what they want.

    Do you think betas would welcome such behavior? Being alpha of course I am hesitant to do it, but I almost wonder if it is what they secretly are craving.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

  29. #29
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    No, udp.

  30. #30
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    I thought that is how FDG described dealing with LSIs. And I also though that LSI's would be looking for Fe from their partner. Their duality description has them arguing all the time.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    Hey, I am serious about this.

    What is the best way to deal with a beta, particularly an LSI, who is going about things in this way?
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    Quote Originally Posted by UDP III
    Here, another question:

    If I am in an argument with a beta, can I bitch them out and yell at them extensively, pointing out why they are wrong?
    One LSI I know is really pushing it, and it seems almost like that is what they want.

    Do you think betas would welcome such behavior? Being alpha of course I am hesitant to do it, but I almost wonder if it is what they secretly are craving.
    yeah you can. but know that you'll never "win" against an estp; they're never wrong. you may reach a compromise or understanding with an istj though, providing you have your facts straight.

    beta's can take it though, even the NF types.

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

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    I doubt this LSI is going to "let me win", because it is a rather conceited one that is highly insecure. Nevertheless, it is just like training a dog - you have to show that you are not going to subordinate yourself to its ways. To be brief, its narrow mindedness inaccurately interpreted the actions someone took. The LSI "had to tell someone they behaved incorrectly" -- not only that, but it was done as we were leaving, and then it was attempted to cover up her "righteous anger" with some fake pleasantries as we left -- leaving for church.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ms. Kensington
    Quote Originally Posted by diamond8
    Quote Originally Posted by ScarlettLux
    Look at all the stereotypical Beta traits you're giving our Quadra. Why can't I share some of my experiences with Alpha? Seriously, IME, Alphas hate confrontation. I've read in many places that Alphas are the quadra that most highly enjoys a smooth, happy atmosphere all the time... this goes for trying to please everyone... as ESFjs/ISFps tend to do in their peacemaking/caregiving ways. Which also means that conflict, even when necessary (in the eyes of a Beta) goes unheard of
    noooo....Alpha SF's are the ones who don't like conflict. the NT's don't care. that's why we need the SF's, because without them, things could get pretty tense!
    Yeah and

    "These both don't like confrontations and are likely to keep the peace.. whereareas I like to stir things up and be straight up with everything, even though it might be controversial. I enjoy the drama. They don't."

    it's not because they don't like to be straight, it's because they (I at least) don't think it's worth it. If they don't care, they aren't letting people walk over them because there is no power struggle from the perspective of the alpha, where there might be one perceived by the Beta. The things they think are worth arguing about would be very different than Betans. Betanoids.
    This is very true to my experience. Two of my best friends are alpha and so is my dad. Growing up, we rarely talked about politics or anything controversial (or potentially so) because my dad would immediately bow out of the conversation. I used to like to stir things up. Now I find that I'm more like the ISFps myself somehow and tend to think that most things aren't worth getting riled up about. I used to enjoy the drama, now I enjoy the peace. ha
    IEI-Fe 4w3

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by UDP III
    I doubt this LSI is going to "let me win", because it is a rather conceited one that is highly insecure. Nevertheless, it is just like training a dog - you have to show that you are not going to subordinate yourself to its ways. To be brief, its narrow mindedness inaccurately interpreted the actions someone took. The LSI "had to tell someone they behaved incorrectly" -- not only that, but it was done as we were leaving, and then it was attempted to cover up her "righteous anger" with some fake pleasantries as we left -- leaving for church.
    lol don't get me started on things said before leaving for church hehe pm me for details. if you're in an irreverent mood, that is!

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

  36. #36
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    so the betas can "take it" when a person is yelling and bitching and pointing out their flaws?

    Don't get surprised if you find yourself being physically beaten because of your lack of common fucking sense

  37. #37
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    They talk about other people's problems, and it is not unlike them to brag about their "toughness". It does not concern me. It is just how they interact.

    It is not "common sense", it is Beta common sense. Beta language.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

  38. #38
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    No, Udp.

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    UDP, I think you'd best speak to another ST-type to figure out how to handle an ISTj, because they remain a mystery to me as well. As far as I know, ENFj-ISTj duality works like any other duality in that each partner sticks to what they're most comfortable doing. The ISTj yields to the ENFj in emotional matters or matters of long-range planning that require , but as far as or matters are concerned, ISTjs are incredibly stubborn and set in their ways. Sometimes even logical arguments roll off their backs if it means they must change something they've "always" done, or admit fault of any kind. Be prepared for a shouting match in a scenario like that.
    But as for the person you're describing, are you sure she's not an Se-subtype ISFj? Granted I don't know many ISFjs, but most ISTjs I've known aren't very concerned about etiquette or interpersonal relations.
    INFp, Intuitive subtype, Enneagram 6w5
    Back in school and on semi-permanent hiatus from the forum

  40. #40
    from toronto with love ScarlettLux's Avatar
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    Honestly, UDP - GTFO.


    Dress pretty, play dirty ღ
    Johari
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