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Thread: Robert Pirsig

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    Don't forget the the thehotelambush's Avatar
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    Default Robert Pirsig

    Author of Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance, which Phaedrus's username is taken from.

    What do you guys think based on VI?







    I think his type is rather clear based on his writing, though I'm not sure about the temperament.

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    I'm positive he is Delta ST.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush
    I'm positive he is Delta ST.
    "...and with that, thehotelambush threw the gauntlet at the feet of the black knight Phaedrus."
    "Alpha Quadra subforum. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious." ~Obi-Wan Kenobi
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    Quote Originally Posted by Logos
    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush
    I'm positive he is Delta ST.
    "...and with that, thehotelambush threw the gauntlet at the feet of the black knight Phaedrus."


    The book is called "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance". That should be a hint straight off the bat. Each section begins with tons of physical details about Pirsig's surroundings. He talks a lot about his distaste for how people are willing to delegate maintenance to professionals, whereas he himself takes pleasure in it. However, he enjoys the peaceful sensation of being far from civilization and industry, close to nature, and acknowledges the dehumanizing effect that technology has on people.

    I don't know really how much Phaedrus would care, since Delta STs still qualify as Objectivists.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Logos
    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush
    I'm positive he is Delta ST.
    "...and with that, thehotelambush threw the gauntlet at the feet of the black knight Phaedrus."
    some of you guys really crack me up.

    fwiw, the guy i know who considered that book to be his bible and got me to read it was most likely an ISTp IMO (as well as a really amazing tattoo artist.)


    edit: it didn't do much for my morale!
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    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush
    I'm positive he is Delta ST.
    Interesting. Even more interesting would be to hear your arguments for it.

    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush
    Each section begins with tons of physical details about Pirsig's surroundings.
    That characteristic is als true, to a reasonable extent, of the novel I wrote some years ago (not published). And even though we might question the correctness of García Marquez or Balzac as ILIs, the fact is that they are considered to be that type by the socionic community, and their writing style would probably fit your description here, considering for example that "the phantasmagoric world of Gabriel García Marquez is impressively precise in every detail."

    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush
    He talks a lot about his distaste for how people are willing to delegate maintenance to professionals, whereas he himself takes pleasure in it.
    He is very concerned about quality, about making things as perfect as possible. So am I, and so was Wittgenstein. Such an attitude is usually more typical of ILIs than of any of the Delta types.

    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush
    However, he enjoys the peaceful sensation of being far from civilization and industry, close to nature, and acknowledges the dehumanizing effect that technology has on people.
    That is perhaps not typical of ILIs, but many people of different types could probably think that way. What is clear from that and other similar things he says in that book and in Lila is that he obviously is an introverted type.

    (His book is so good that it seems possible for a lot of people to think of it as their "bible". It doesn't tell us anything conclusive about their types, but some types, for example the ISFjs I know, don't seem to be so fascinated by it.)

    Your move!

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    He is very concerned about quality, about making things as perfect as possible. So am I, and so was Wittgenstein. Such an attitude is usually more typical of ILIs than of any of the Delta types.

    why?
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    Hmm. I think ILIs are concerned with perfection. Whereas SLI do things perfectly. ahaha. I think he is INTj.
    asd

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    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    He is very concerned about quality, about making things as perfect as possible. So am I, and so was Wittgenstein. Such an attitude is usually more typical of ILIs than of any of the Delta types.
    why?
    I am not sure why. In a functional perspective it is not perfectly clear to me which explanation of that attitude and behaviour is the correct one, but if you read the type descriptions and study the behaviours of real life ILIs in comparison with the Delta types, you will see that it is true. Jonathan has said something about it in a post once when he I think he described Beethoven as a composer (and Beethoven was an ILI according to Filatova, even though am not sure of his type myself, and neither is Jonathan I would assume).

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    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    He is very concerned about quality, about making things as perfect as possible. So am I, and so was Wittgenstein. Such an attitude is usually more typical of ILIs than of any of the Delta types.

    why?
    First, I have no idea about what the book is about except for what's been said here.

    If it's about making physical objects work as perfectly as possible, as in a motorcycle, that is the very essence of the ISTp's functions, and . If it's about everything, it sounds more like Negativism.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    First, I have no idea about what the book is about except for what's been said here.

    If it's about making physical objects work as perfectly as possible, as in a motorcycle, that is the very essence of the ISTp's functions, and . If it's about everything, it sounds more like Negativism.
    The book is not about making physical objects work as perfectly as possible, it has almost nothing at all to do with that. It is a philosophical study, "An Inquiry Into Values". It is a philosopher's journey to better self-understanding. It is a presentation of a metaphysical theory of the world, written in a non-academic format. It is a try to make a theoretical synthesis of Art and Science. And it is very much an autobiography.

    There are a lot of sites on the Internet discussing the content of that book, if anyone is interested in that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phaedrus
    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush
    I'm positive he is Delta ST.
    Interesting. Even more interesting would be to hear your arguments for it.

    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush
    Each section begins with tons of physical details about Pirsig's surroundings.
    That characteristic is als true, to a reasonable extent, of the novel I wrote some years ago (not published). And even though we might question the correctness of García Marquez or Balzac as ILIs, the fact is that they are considered to be that type by the socionic community, and their writing style would probably fit your description here, considering for example that "the phantasmagoric world of Gabriel García Marquez is impressively precise in every detail."
    I've read Marquez, and it's not even close to the same thing. The use of "phantasmagoric" should be telling, since Marquez does not focus on physical details much at all.

    Please try to avoid any comparison with yourself - or any INTp, if you can. How about a reason for Ni > Si?

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    Default Re: Robert Pirsig

    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush
    Author of Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance, which Phaedrus's username is taken from.
    I thought Phaedrus' username came from the book by Plato which discusses the effect the move from written discourse to oral stories has on the memory - namely, that it is turned to mush by not having to remember things etc. - it seemed obvious that an INTp would have read an obscure book like that, rather than something more modern - and there was I thinking we were all cultured (I'm sure 'Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance' is comparable in quality to one of the works of Plato ).

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    Default Re: Robert Pirsig

    Quote Originally Posted by Subterranean
    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush
    Author of Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance, which Phaedrus's username is taken from.
    I thought Phaedrus' username came from the book by Plato which discusses the effect the move from written discourse to oral stories has on the memory - namely, that it is turned to mush by not having to remember things etc. - it seemed obvious that an INTp would have read an obscure book like that, rather than something more modern - and there was I thinking we were all cultured (I'm sure 'Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance' is comparable in quality to one of the works of Plato ).
    Yeah, Pirsig took it from Plato.

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    He is INFP IMO
    Well I am back. How's everyone? Don't have as much time now, but glad to see some of the old gang are still here.

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    Default Re: Robert Pirsig

    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush
    Quote Originally Posted by Subterranean
    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush
    Author of Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance, which Phaedrus's username is taken from.
    I thought Phaedrus' username came from the book by Plato which discusses the effect the move from written discourse to oral stories has on the memory - namely, that it is turned to mush by not having to remember things etc. - it seemed obvious that an INTp would have read an obscure book like that, rather than something more modern - and there was I thinking we were all cultured (I'm sure 'Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance' is comparable in quality to one of the works of Plato ).
    Yeah, Pirsig took it from Plato.
    And I took it from both -- so I win!

    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush
    How about a reason for Ni > Si?
    Have you read my comments about Pirsig's books in the post in Jonathan's thread, which I linked to in my first post in this thread? I see everywhere in his books. And if you look at how he describes the character Phaedrus, his interests, his attitude, his behaviour, his way of getting lost in thought, etc., isn't it clear that he can't be any of the Delta types? For a long time I was unsure whether he was an INTj or an INTp, but when I finally understood the function as observation of fields, it became clear to me that Phaedrus (Pirsig) is not an INTj but an INTp. His general aggressiveness is also a clear sign of INTp > INTj, and that and other behaviours of him makes for example INFp an impossible type for him. He is definitely a T type, and of course he cannot be an extraverted type -- in no way. His introvertedness is extremely obvious.

    I also suggest Pirsig's book Lila for reading. Since it is written in third person, we get a chance to see how others might perceive the character Phaedrus. You will see that he makes a lot of Fe PoLR remarks in his quest for the truth. And there is a very illustrating passage about a boat that Lila thinks highly of, where it is obvious that Lila has a Fe>Fi preference and that Phaedrus is very critical of the lack of sincerity and genuineness in such a phenomenon. It is not real quality to him, whereas Lila is touched by what is expressed on the surface (which is nothing but a fake to Phaedrus).

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