Alpha had one, and I was absolutely positive that Beta (and all the other Quadras too) should have one! C'mon, let's have at it, Betans! :wink:
Re: Beta Field Guides
That's "Betazoids," dagnabbit.Originally Posted by ScarlettLux
Retired from posting and drawing Social Security. E-mail or PM to contact.
I pity your souls
I am rather interested in this as well, so if "Betazoids" do not start contributing to this thread, I may start talking about being able to spot "Betazoids" by the horns in their heads, their grazing habits, and whatever happens to be on Animal Planet at the time of writing this. :wink:
Johari Box"Alpha Quadra subforum. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious." ~Obi-Wan Kenobi
that would actually help move this thread in the right direction, lol
INFp-Ni
What if you are to lazy to read alpha's thread and know what we should discuss here?
Basically discussing how to recognize "Betazoids" out in the wilderness of Real Life easily.. distinguishing them from the other Quadras.
Fine, I'll try and start you guys off:
+Loud, LOUD laughing... lots of facial expressions, emotiveness and general obnoxiousness. This goes for all the Beta types, actually. Even the introverts, whom can appear passive (INFps) and/or too serious (ISTjs) will really crack out in psychotic sounding laughter when they think something is funny
+Competitive FIGHTING spirit... None of the Beta types will let anything get in their way. Probably the first to get angry @ authority or being treated unfairly. Attempting to create "revolutionary" stances on things to change around whatever is unappealing to them.
+Seem pretty crazy at first glance... as UDP pointed out ever so nicely, when he looks at the behavior of Beta types, he usually thinks "they have some sort of mental problem". Yes, we are known for kookiness. The Fe + Se + Ni + Ti leads to fiercely dramatic emotional expression of inner desires and having those inner desires manifest themselves in the outside world no matter what, and believing that they are in fact, CORRECT.
They are much more accepting then others. I can pull a lot more crap and they still don't think badly of my because of that.
I can after getting a feel of the person just simulate me making an ass out of myself infront of the person and judge the reaction. I suppose those who would make a good reaction would be betazoids.
btw, the thing about authority... what's wrong with some authority people anyway? =) Police, teachers. The electric man. It is just a role and you shouldn't make it harder on the people trying to improve society. If you are treated unfairly by them, what can you do really? =) only drama queens get angry.
perhaps the authority question deserves another thread so we won't go to offtopic? Any authoritive mods around? =)
Totally disagree. Loud is a description I wouldn't use and that from my experience totally doesn't describe an average betazoid. Especially IEI-s and LSI-s. I'd say the image of being dramatic fits. But dramatic as in a willingness to engage in acting and a type of acting. From experience every betazoid has willingly played along every time I started a role playing game like "But why on earth wouldn't you like ___? I mean *everybody* loves it! Don't be an exception! Why don't you like it? You're really weird! You know, people keep telling me you're weird, you know, behind your back, and I have to say I agree with them. They also keep telling me a lot of other things. Behind your back of course" and so on all while heavily gesticulating and stressing pronunciation, just like in ancient dramas, so that you know precisely what my emotion and state of mind is and there is no way to mistake it. I'd say playing games like that is a trademark of betazoids.
(I love it when LSI-s, or more specifically, this one LSI then grabs my shoulder and says "You know (little boy) somebody might do something to you for saying things like that" and then I go, with a dumb struck bewilderness on my face "Really?!? But who (Uncle jimmy)???" "Hahaha, someone like me, hahaha..." lol I love that ^_^)
Totally wrong. First I have yet to meet any IEI (And SEI) that weren't total pacifists. They may be pissed off but they'll take it for as long as they possibly can. However, it the beta NF-s reach the breaking point you can expect some pretty hardcore stuff. But then again so can you from any type. But in there case, from my experience, is a total dehumanization (Of you). You will literally seize to exist.+Competitive FIGHTING spirit... None of the Beta types will let anything get in their way. Probably the first to get angry @ authority or being treated unfairly. Attempting to create "revolutionary" stances on things to change around whatever is unappealing to them.
I could see beta ST-s as being competitive, but that seems to be a lot more individual then a type trait. But I would agree with the zero tolerance for abuse thing, from beta ST-s, if the think they've been treated unfairly, you can be sure they'll be in your face. But I'd say the same for ESE-s.
UDP has problems if he really thinks normal people have mental problems. Or is judging to quickly. The only difference between alphas and betas is in the usage of informational elements, all the other aspect of ones humanity are unaffected, meaning, if a normal person approaches another normal person they quickly realize their similarities and differences, meaning, they do not conclude the other is insane, but a separate, *different*, individual.+Seem pretty crazy at first glance... as UDP pointed out ever so nicely, when he looks at the behavior of Beta types, he usually thinks "they have some sort of mental problem". Yes, we are known for kookiness. The Fe + Se + Ni + Ti leads to fiercely dramatic emotional expression of inner desires and having those inner desires manifest themselves in the outside world no matter what, and believing that they are in fact, CORRECT.
As for the second part, all types can have fiercely dramatic emotional expressions of inner desires. In fact I'd say it's a part of being human. Unless you're tying to say that betas do this "normally", or fake it in other worlds because their internal state doesn't match this extreme expression, or perhaps that it does, that they are not faking it, that they are really experiencing this extreme internal state that they are so frequently expressing and which is most likely caused by something insignificant because extreme circumstance trigger extreme reactions and extreme circumstances are quite rare (Perhaps once or twice a lifetime on average). Either way, whether they are faking their normal, everyday acts of fierce dramatic emotional expression of internal states or they are real, I'd say it's completely not true.
That's most of alpha
This is IMO here, sorry if none of it is correctly agreed upon with other Betazoids.. but noone was writing anything! I had to start if off somewhere, even though it now seems I started off wrong.. LOL.
Um, snegledmaca. I agree with your first point about Betazoids being very dramatic and willing to engage in "acting" ... yes, VERY good way to put it! I didn't know how to put that.. but it's very true, and hard to describe for me in words. It's like some sort of fun game just to over dramatize certain things/events in life.. just the way we say them and all. It can be annoying to Fi quadras because it looks like we're hyping things up but we're just having fun.
I'm not sure about the other stuff you said.. personally, I think Beta NFs, especially IEIs are NOT pacificists IME. Nearly all of them (including me) won't take your shit, and will NOT back down if they have a cause. SEIs are definitely more of the peaceful type. Why would IEIs have SLEs for a Dual then, if they didn't enjoy the competitive struggle? The standing up for what you believe in, to a scary point? I see that in my EIE and LSI friends very much so as well. It's a fierce determination not found in other Quadras.. seriously.
Meh, don't know where I was going with the crazy thing. I think just the INTENSITY of Beta is what I was trying to speak of!
Pacifist means non aggressive, it doesn't say anything about a lack of passion or determination.
Hmm, to stop them plunging head first, to be the counterbalance to their intensity? They always say for dual couples that they are so different and yet complement each other so fully, I'm not saying an IEI wouldn't support the SLE-s efforts just that their methods are diametrically opposed to that of the SLE. SLE might say "Now! This way!" an IEI would say "Wait! This might be better".Why would IEIs have SLEs for a Dual then, if they didn't enjoy the competitive struggle? The standing up for what you believe in, to a scary point?
Perhaps it's a cultural thing then, betazoids here are definitely not intense. Quite mellow actually. But then again the entire country is mellow.I see that in my EIE and LSI friends very much so as well. It's a fierce determination not found in other Quadras.. seriously.
Meh, don't know where I was going with the crazy thing. I think just the INTENSITY of Beta is what I was trying to speak of!
my work experiences with beta:
Organization on a personal level. Like to keep an 'inner group.' This can include people of all quadras. But it's mostly to keep trusted, reliable people close and others at moderate range.
Some are very good at promoting at work. Our Human resources manager is a beta ST and he draws people into the spirit on the facility. He looks out for people's organizational needs. He doesn't say, "You work here and you promote the health of your patients." He says, "You work here, you help the patients, and you are surrounded by friends. Speak to me when you need something."
They generally dislike avoidant people. If someone has an issue they want to hear of it. If they can tell you aren't going to open up with your issue they will confront you upon it and draw it out.
I like the Betas I work with. I think my mom may be Beta because most of the staff she keeps close is Beta. Or she's smart and knows the best staff to keep in management is Beta.
I'll add that Betas don't fair well in environments where their beliefs are compromised. They are skeptical of Te and don't see 'cutting corners' as good business strategy. In fact, Betas do love material things as much as anyone else, but they usually aren't driven solely by money and efficiency. They think maintaining a good team of workers and a distinct and working heiarchy/beureaucracy works best for business.
So remember:
Betas like beliefs. Their personal friends and heirarchy. Drawing people close and making sure everyone is involved with the surrounding spirit. They don't enjoy people who are overtly pragmatic. They'd get bored of you if you came back from a vacation and talked about the routes you took and how much time/money you saved before talking about the grand adventure and emotions experienced.
Also, most of this is based on the few Beta STs I know. With NFs I have less first hand experience. I live in a small, somewhat rural city and we don't have a large Beta NF community.
I thought of a great example of Beta ST! The human resources manager at my building was welcoming in new employees with the 3 day orientation. Well, one particular girl, I think Beta NF, got into a long conversation with him. The conversation was concerning her personal life, relationships, group of friends, and the things they share in common. Anyway, he was listening to all this for two reasons: He wants to know her and where she stands in life for the sake of placing her in the building, and wants to establish a personal connection to her to show her he has some authority to make things happen. He wants to be the go-to guy in all situations. This isn't exactly his position in the building, but he knows that realistically, with enough pull and charisma his personal authority can supercede the authority of those in higher power than him. It's very political. I personally trust this Beta ST very much because he does follow through.
asd
scarlettlux i agree with your point about IEI's not taking any shit. the one i'm with right now won't take any. there is a competitive aspect to our relationship but it's not overwhelming like with my estp ex. uh, i don't really take any shit either. heh.
maybe there is an intensity to beta, that's why i like them, being sort of an intense person myelf, that is.
ILE
those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often
Beta intensity... what is it really about? I am looking to understand betas more at this time. Particularly LSIs. I may make a new thread, although there is another already in place.
Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.
~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.
I'm not sure about Beta intensity either, but I can offer a suggestion from two fictional LSIs that Expat has typed - Leonidas (from the movie 300) and the Bond-Vesper couple (Bond is ISTj; Vesper is Beta, not sure which type) from Casino Royale. Of course, being fictional, this is only speculative, but, if you watch any of these characters, you will notice a slight seriousness, commitment to some kind of purpose beneath everything that they do. Whatever they do, they do it fully.Beta intensity... what is it really about?
Am I on the right lines?
Kind regards,
Five/Tanzhe
leonides brings forth an image that helps to explicate this very well.
i think the ST side of the beta intensity is about digging in and not letting go until the goal is met. it's kind of like a single-mindedness and tenacity, with a large dollop of forcefulness. estp's and istj's are dogs with a bone. they absolutely will not let something go unless it loses its tactical value for some reason or if the powers that be disable them.
on the NF side, it's emotional dramaticism. if you think about it Fe is a pretty powerful and intense function since it's all about influencing the mood of groups of people, not the more technical Fi influence of relationships. influencing a whole group - the rock concert analogy works well here. the creative use of music, lights, emotion, and timing illustrate the intensity of beta NF. and it just so happens that a lot of charismatic musicians/singers are enfj.
ILE
those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often
Beta humour definitely needs mentioning.....
All beta types, in my experience, are open to laughing at completely over the top, politically incorrect jokes (like the kind of jokes that would make an ISFj/INFj/ESFj's ears bleed)
Minorities, cripples, the mentally handicapped, Africa, nuclear holocaust, genocide, priests, babies and blenders, poor people, capitalists, communists, green peace, Palestinians jumping in front of tanks, politicians, animal rights, 9/11, mohammed cartoons, the tsunami, prophets, religion, beastiality, abortion, etc. it's all fair game, lol
we enjoy the irony of laughing at something that's not supposed to be funny simply because the concept that we're not supposed to laugh at it is fucking hilarious.
prudes are sexy. And it feels so nasty and forbidden too seduce the prude. And young. And virgins. And married.
Forbidden fruit+Darkstar=love
perhaps there is an underlying commonality with what you are describing misutii (finnish?)
My version:we enjoy the irony of laughing at something that's not supposed to be funny simply because the concept that we're not supposed to laugh at it is fucking hilarious.
I enjoy the irony of fucking someone that is not supposed to be fucked because I am not supposed to have her and that is fucking sexy
And I enjoy making sure things like that do not happen.
... only so much though. If someone is that weak in character in and influence as to accept such advances, then they deserve the consequences.
The matter seems to be whether they understand what is going on or not. If they are old enough to no better, then....
[youtube]http://youtube.com/watch?v=Oriqi_2YaXc[/youtube]
Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.
~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.
Weren't most of the Beatles Gamma?
Johari Box"Alpha Quadra subforum. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious." ~Obi-Wan Kenobi
pointless
SEE Unknown Subtype
6w7 sx/so
[21:29] hitta: idealism is just the gap between the thought of death
[21:29] hitta: and not dying
.
true, but I have my limits. Jokes about people that are born with defects-- or minors-- are not looked at jokingly by me. That isnt fair or right. But people dying cause they built their home on an ocean cliff is sheer hilarity.
Here's my two pence worth.
- Have you heard of 4X (you have now)? Welcome to the world of Betas. The SLE and the EIE carry out the 4Xs, the IEI and the LSI provide support in their own unique ways respectively.
- The best of the humanitarians belong to Beta quadra. Think IEIs are wacky? WRONG. It's a social label slapped on a genius; a seer; a magician. Their gentle, insightful ways will guide the harsh, rough SLE through life. How about EIEs being megalomaniacs? Are you taking the piss? These are like IEIs, but a bit shitter with a the magic, and a bit better with the taking action. They'll plant their vision in the sands of time for all to enjoy. They want to help everyone with their ideals, which they know will benefit humanity.
- Beta STs know what real strength is. SLEs provide the best command. Behind their hard-nosed demeanour, they know. They understand. They will win. They will beat you. They will occupy top spot. And LSIs? The greatest of rule-abiders. Enforcers of the law. If the SLE is the prime minister, or the field marshall, the LSI is the chief of police, MI5, MI6 or the drill instructors.
haha, awesome. I always saw betas as a monarchy where one relies on the others for their title...
ISTj- Royal Guard.
ESTp- Commander.
INFp- Mystic.
ENFj- Monarch.
Well, that would be top tier anyways of each anyway
You also reminded me somewhat, with your 4X example, of a general societal value for Betas-- they seem to be good at unearthing resources not found, whether they're informatic or proprietary in any shape or form.
That was really amazing. Thinking of beta as a monarchy......
That was so great.
D-SEI
This is me and my dual being scientific together
That's actually quite a good way of putting it. I'd agree that those would be each type's typical jobs in a monarchy. Perhaps in the royal court, the LSI might be the advisor to the EIE king or queen. The SLE would make a good commander of the armies, if the king or queen is not a warrior king or queen. For example, this system wouldn't fit well when someone like Henry VIII is the monarch - a warrior; an SLE.
Hehehe, nice one Ezrahaha, awesome. I always saw betas as a monarchy where one relies on the others for their title...
ISTj- Royal Guard.
ESTp- Commander.
INFp- Mystic.
ENFj- Monarch.
Well, that would be top tier anyways of each anyway
Aye bet a lot of the SAS eg are ISTj and ESTp. INFp's actually make for good spooks and intelligence types (think George Smiley rather than James Bond heh).
INFp
If your sea chart does not match reality, go with reality (Old mariner saying)
FYI, Jadae wrote it, not me. It's good though isn't it.Hehehe, nice one Ezra
Absolutely. I also think LSEs would fare well in these sorts of institutions. It would be of benefit to their country and to the country's citizens; they would be serving and protecting.Aye bet a lot of the SAS eg are ISTj and ESTp.
I consider betas the most amazing quadra, because they cover every base.
INFp-The introverted, shy person
ISTj- The rule-follower, perfect governmental quadra.
ENFj-The sociable person who can "attract friends with their eyes closed"-ENFj quote.
ESTp- Just plain clever people.
They're like the perfect quadra. Who agrees.
Last edited by Mediator Kam; 12-23-2007 at 05:52 PM. Reason: youuuu
D-SEI
This is me and my dual being scientific together
Yes I know Ezra. I was just replying to your and Jadae's posts in one go heh. You had the original idea which Jadae built upon and I agreed with you both
INFp
If your sea chart does not match reality, go with reality (Old mariner saying)
Oh come on, choose a more appealing stereotype... rule-enforcer? Authoritarian tyrant? (c:
LSI
I fail to see your angle sir.
The LSI's I know love the rules, but have not yet traversed into tyrant-hood.
And they have problems sharing their feelings.
D-SEI
This is me and my dual being scientific together
No angle, it's just more fun to enforce than to follow... even as a word, it has a nicer sound (c:I fail to see your angle sir.
The LSI's I know love the rules, but have not yet traversed into tyrant-hood.
And they have problems sharing their feelings.
LSI
Th3 3nf0rc3r !!!Meh, too many 3's.
THE ENFORCER!!! (better?)
Yeah, different systems. I like the idea of each having a unique role, I guess. I like the interdependancy, maybe? I dunno!
hmm, I see what you are saying. For example, We were playing tennis, and one of my friends(LSI) was my doubles partner. We were playing against this ESTp and another girl, and they weren't playing correctly. My friend was getting physically angry at them, calling them names and stuff. I said "What the hell are you saying?" He said "I'm a nerd, I love the rules. Rules need to be followed"
I said "OMG ISTJ!" That confirmed it for me, since I was suspecting his LSI-ness.
D-SEI
This is me and my dual being scientific together
Yeah... you learn with time to let go of that and enforce rules only if they are needed (and they are not in a friendly game), but the gut reaction to rule breaking is annoyance.
LSI
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