Difficulty and distance in socializing with INTps

[machintruc]

ILI's are generally very difficult to socialise with, because they are VERY distant. They can even find excuses to avoid any social contact. I don't know if it's because they find socialising redundant or if it would require too much efforts to do.

In school, I have known a pretty materialistic and hateful ILI ; he was depressive probably because he made himself illusions (like most types could), and his life didn't match what he expected from. He was very aggressive, and harmed other students regularily.

[FDG]

The real problem was the he didn't believe in God.

[implied]

[Gilly]

lol...

I've known ILIs who were plenty sociable. Not all of them, obviously, but they certainly aren't all recluses...

[machintruc]

lol...

I've known ILIs who were plenty sociable. Not all of them, obviously, but they certainly aren't all recluses...

Are you sure they weren't ILE's or SLI's ?

[KSpin]

lol...

I've known ILIs who were plenty sociable. Not all of them, obviously, but they certainly aren't all recluses...

Are you sure they weren't ILE's or SLI's ?

Hey, I can socialise and I can do stuff, I just don't tend to find socialising fun, that's all. At least not with strangers. With people I know, it can be fun... touchy feely types I tend to try to avoid, aswell as the loud and obnoxious types (whatever they are). I'm most interested in socialising with my fellow NTs, usually playing games or wargaming, or something similar.

[machintruc]

lol...

I've known ILIs who were plenty sociable. Not all of them, obviously, but they certainly aren't all recluses...

Are you sure they weren't ILE's or SLI's ?

Hey, I can socialise and I can do stuff, I just don't tend to find socialising fun, that's all.

Isn't socialising fun ? Isn't having good relationships fun ? What do you have against people ?

[KSpin]

lol...

I've known ILIs who were plenty sociable. Not all of them, obviously, but they certainly aren't all recluses...

Are you sure they weren't ILE's or SLI's ?

Hey, I can socialise and I can do stuff, I just don't tend to find socialising fun, that's all.

Isn't socialising fun ? Isn't having good relationships fun ? What do you have against people ?

No, having good relationships with people is of very little importance to me. I don't have actually have what anybody would call 'real friends' because I simply don't feel the urge to have any. Most of my friends are online, or away at University and it really doesn't bother me.

What do I have against people? Nothing... neither positive nor negative.

Edit: Threatening to sound a bit schizo here, but I can actually have perfectly good conversations with myself. I can actually pretend to have a conversation with someone else in my head. I expect this would have something to do with and but it could just be me going a bit mad. Who knows?

[Gilly]

Yes, I'm sure they were ILIs...I wouldn't have said it if I wasn't

[Gilly]

Hey, I have conversations in my head all the time. I've TOTALLY got a devil and an angel

[KSpin]

Hey, I have conversations in my head all the time. I've TOTALLY got a devil and an angel

This isn't usually an ethical thing though, it's not about good or bad, it's usually weighing up considerations and then trying to find flaws in the plan/idea.

And it's usually during some of these sessions of thinking/conversing with nobody that some ESFj comes up and tells me to cheer up, or asks why I'm looking sad.

[Gilly]

Well sure. The devil and angel was just one example. I have debates with myself all the time That's what logic is, as far as I can see; any other kind is incomplete.

[Dioklecian]

lol...

I've known ILIs who were plenty sociable. Not all of them, obviously, but they certainly aren't all recluses...

Are you sure they weren't ILE's or SLI's ?

Hey, I can socialise and I can do stuff, I just don't tend to find socialising fun, that's all.

Isn't socialising fun ? Isn't having good relationships fun ? What do you have against people ?

Socializing with some people can be detrimental to your health.

[Quirk Satellite Div.]

I don't mind socializing and meeting new people, although some people may receive the impression that I just want to run away from a conversation whenever I start talking to someone. I feel I am a fairly sociable person, even though it's not really a strong point of mine, where it takes a long time for me to usually build friendships, and where it's generally hard for me to maintain a large group of social contacts. In the past I use to be more of the stereotypical INTp recluse who rarely socializes maybe except for a few friends outside of the family. I actually have very few, if none, friends that I have met online, in contrast.

[BLauritson]

I enjoy socialising, but only with people I already know and trust. My Fi tends to be a bit overactive at times, so if I'm invited out somewhere with people I like, then I usually agree since it gives me a chance to be in the company of people I like. That's the limit though, I hate socialising with strangers. I tend to be wary of strangers, especially crowds of them.

[drd252]

Socializing is a special kinda beast, a double-edged sword of sorts.

Strangers have to be overtly cool/interesting/intelligent in order for me to work up the desire to talk to them. Socializing with close friends is easier, but not much; I like to hang out with them and party, but it's very, very, very draining. Even when I'm being social, I typically say the least of the group, unless we're talking about one of my obscure special interests

[machintruc]

I enjoy socialising, but only with people I already know and trust. My Fi tends to be a bit overactive at times, so if I'm invited out somewhere with people I like, then I usually agree since it gives me a chance to be in the company of people I like. That's the limit though, I hate socialising with strangers. I tend to be wary of strangers, especially crowds of them.

Most Negativists have this behaviour of socialising. They are socially reserved by their nature (you see - this is not related to Introtimness - try to socialise with an LSE for example). Positivists better get along with strangers.

[mike_INTJ]

lol...

I've known ILIs who were plenty sociable. Not all of them, obviously, but they certainly aren't all recluses...

Are you sure they weren't ILE's or SLI's ?

Hey, I can socialise and I can do stuff, I just don't tend to find socialising fun, that's all.

Isn't socialising fun ? Isn't having good relationships fun ? What do you have against people ?

people are dead on boring much of the time. they speak of how they got a good deal on shoes. how their kid was potty trained, or stupid things they ate at the buffet. in general, people are just boring, and really nosey.

socializing isn't fun, it's hard work, and i gain nothing from it - unless of course they are a simaler type to me - but that's pretty rare. i don't know of relationships, it takes time to trust someone. further you have to start the conversation, as they never do. people look for certain signs of openess, i guess i have none.

[mike_INTJ]

ILI's are generally very difficult to socialise with, because they are VERY distant. They can even find excuses to avoid any social contact. I don't know if it's because they find socialising redundant or if it would require too much efforts to do.

In school, I have known a pretty materialistic and hateful ILI ; he was depressive probably because he made himself illusions (like most types could), and his life didn't match what he expected from. He was very aggressive, and harmed other students regularily.

in general i find it annoying to talk to people. it's a yin-yang. if i'm too quiet, people think i'm depressed or just a jerk. if i talk, i talk too much, dominate the conversation and insist i'm right. i can't argue with people. can't talk silly things, scientific or otherwise. and in general i'm called wierd. so you can't win at all. either your a snob or weird.

if you have to respond to something it means you have to be listening in the first place. and like a really boring movie, i can't pay attention to whatever their blathering about. especially if more than one person is talking. it's very draining.

i do keep an imaginative world, it's the only thing keeping me sane. but it fades quickly back to reality again, which unfortunally goes exactly like i thought is was going to do. unfortunally, the world reponds to conversation, and i'm just not there.

[Forest-Dragon]

Shouldn't be raking up old topics that have settled and died, but oh well...

I'm an LIE and ILIs are my mirror. Almost every ILI I know is a genius, especially with maths and science and all that stuff. However, I always get this impression that I am dragging words out of them when I'm talking to them. Not that that's a problem, but I find that I have rather silent friendships with most ILIs.

I also get this impression that there is a lot they don't say. The ILIs I know are very economical with their words and will express the essence of their thoughts over 10 minutes in one succinct logical sentence. Then they will be quiet for the next 10 minutes until summing up the essence of their thoughts again. Does anyone else have this experience?

[mike_INTJ]

Shouldn't be raking up old topics that have settled and died, but oh well...

I'm an LIE and ILIs are my mirror. Almost every ILI I know is a genius, especially with maths and science and all that stuff. However, I always get this impression that I am dragging words out of them when I'm talking to them. Not that that's a problem, but I find that I have rather silent friendships with most ILIs.

I also get this impression that there is a lot they don't say. The ILIs I know are very economical with their words and will express the essence of their thoughts over 10 minutes in one succinct logical sentence. Then they will be quiet for the next 10 minutes until summing up the essence of their thoughts again. Does anyone else have this experience?

it's the assumption that you already know the topic so we'll provide only enough info to cover the topic.

in general when i start talking people faze out. so after a while you learn to truncate your words so you don't waste your time when no one is listening anyway. further since i tend to preplan what i say, i may accidently say it in my head and not out loud. but mostly i don't chit chat well, and i need a topic. sort of like jump starting a car.

[Forest-Dragon]

Interesting. I wouldn't say that I faze out when INTps talk. In fact, quite the opposite, because their comments are often incisively accurate. One INTp friend of mine amazes me with the way he can predict what people's next moves will be based on their postures and positioning in a room.

Then again, most of the INTps I speak to may have already learnt to cut down the amount they say into the bare essentials.

I must say the logical turn of your phrase and matter-of-fact tone is reminiscent of one of my good INTp friends. Not that that's particularly on topic, but if you were ever uncertain about your type....

[mike_INTJ]

Interesting. I wouldn't say that I faze out when INTps talk. In fact, quite the opposite, because their comments are often incisively accurate. One INTp friend of mine amazes me with the way he can predict what people's next moves will be based on their postures and positioning in a room.

Then again, most of the INTps I speak to may have already learnt to cut down the amount they say into the bare essentials.

I must say the logical turn of your phrase and matter-of-fact tone is reminiscent of one of my good INTp friends. Not that that's particularly on topic, but if you were ever uncertain about your type....

i guess it really depends on the enviroment. i work in place that is made up of spanish and other languages. so people faze out fast. and from there i just never picked up a patter that anyone can recognize. gone are the days when i could mention kilngon or B5 and people would know what i'm talking about. the engineers on the other hand - i can talk to them without a problem .

usually my words are big, and detailed, and unless someone really wants to know, i won't say much about the topic. as i've often had people tell me that i'm actually saying too much.

and like him, i can generally predict what people will do next. each person has a model of sorts that can be easily predicted. but you have to test them in different fazes of emotion and see how they react. then using their body motions (smooth, rough, etc), voice inflection, eye movement, etc, you can predict what should happen based on whatever event was thrown at them.

[reyn_til_runa]

Shouldn't be raking up old topics that have settled and died, but oh well...
I also get this impression that there is a lot they don't say. The ILIs I know are very economical with their words and will express the essence of their thoughts over 10 minutes in one succinct logical sentence. Then they will be quiet for the next 10 minutes until summing up the essence of their thoughts again. Does anyone else have this experience?

imagine having to wait for the exact moment when experiences bleed out the truth, and then having to contain the truth in time before the next truth is bled out. that is why there is pressure to keep things concise and almost circular. it just so happens that this makes for some baffling paradoxes. i think of my speech as having shape, orientation and motion. there are two main parts to any statement if it is to actually say something. the first is like the premise, the assumption, the thing that i am about to call into question with the second part. and the second part is the thing that was revealed to me in the course of the time i was silent or seemed unsure, and this second part often seems to contradict the first (but does not).most of what i wish to tell people is built like this -- another way to describe it may be: this is what you may have believed, but this is what i now (at this moment and possibly not the next) know is true....

[drd252]

Shouldn't be raking up old topics that have settled and died, but oh well...
I also get this impression that there is a lot they don't say. The ILIs I know are very economical with their words and will express the essence of their thoughts over 10 minutes in one succinct logical sentence. Then they will be quiet for the next 10 minutes until summing up the essence of their thoughts again. Does anyone else have this experience?

imagine having to wait for the exact moment when experiences bleed out the truth, and then having to contain the truth in time before the next truth is bled out. that is why there is pressure to keep things concise and almost circular. it just so happens that this makes for some baffling paradoxes. i think of my speech as having shape, orientation and motion. there are two main parts to any statement if it is to actually say something. the first is like the premise, the assumption, the thing that i am about to call into question with the second part. and the second part is the thing that was revealed to me in the course of the time i was silent or seemed unsure, and this second part often seems to contradict the first (but does not).most of what i wish to tell people is built like this -- another way to describe it may be: this is what you may have believed, but this is what i now (at this moment and possibly not the next) know is true....

Yes, I always make it a point to highlight someone's wrong perception before I lay down the truth. I speak like I write, concise and to the point; ambiguous meaning or extraneous words annoys me. I try to formulate what I say in order for it to be understood in one pass, even though it almost never happens What really irks me about talking to people, is that people (not ILIs) will reiterate small things several times before continuing with the big picture of what they're trying to say (sensor types mostly), and they get pissed off when I stop them and force them to get to the point My girlfriend (ISFj) usually spends about a half hour describing how horrible her day at work was (she's a waitress at a sushi bar), when all that needs to be said is "Man, I had some asshole customers today" plus one good example.

Whatever, we can't all be ILI, unfortunately

[FDG]

My girlfriend (ISFj) usually spends about a half hour describing how horrible her day at work was (she's a waitress at a sushi bar), when all that needs to be said is "Man, I had some asshole customers today" plus one good example.

Of course, she only wants to be hugged, and then directly undressed in order to stop talking about it. Works wonders.

[drd252]

My girlfriend (ISFj) usually spends about a half hour describing how horrible her day at work was (she's a waitress at a sushi bar), when all that needs to be said is "Man, I had some asshole customers today" plus one good example.

Of course, she only wants to be hugged, and then directly undressed in order to stop talking about it. Works wonders.

Yeah, that's usually what happens :wink:

[ScarlettLux]

ILIs seem to take things a little bit too seriously, IMO. Especially in terms of stuff like this, socializing, speaking and whatnot. They always seem to be so proper and "intellectual" .. not being able to truly let go and be free.. =/ I want to shake them and say, "Come on, show some proper emotion, be lively, smile, laugh, dance!" ... But they just stand there in their languid way and gaze at me placidly with little to no expression on their face. The more I try to make them bouncier, the less they respond. Oh, Fi dual seeking.. you haunt me.

[mike_INTJ]

ILIs seem to take things a little bit too seriously, IMO. Especially in terms of stuff like this, socializing, speaking and whatnot. They always seem to be so proper and "intellectual" .. not being able to truly let go and be free.. =/ I want to shake them and say, "Come on, show some proper emotion, be lively, smile, laugh, dance!" ... But they just stand there in their languid way and gaze at me placidly with little to no expression on their face. The more I try to make them bouncier, the less they respond. Oh, Fi dual seeking.. you haunt me.

the thing is - what is that? how do you express emotion? how do you laugh for the heck of it? why would i want to dance? why is that enjoyable? what is lively and what do i compare it with.

you have to start with something in order to do those things. i wasn't born with the socializing skill. i have no idea how to flirt or what to do if someone does that to me. i will usually analyze until they leave. i assume they are like that, as not many do that to me. it's all one big joke, as people have made fun of me, or took advantage of me. it's easier to simply be logical. i'd like to have a "fun half" but i need to be taught. for me that stuff is a learned item, not natural.

i'd like those free spirits to be more proper and responsible - but they won't be, because they weren't born with that ability.

[ScarlettLux]

ILIs seem to take things a little bit too seriously, IMO. Especially in terms of stuff like this, socializing, speaking and whatnot. They always seem to be so proper and "intellectual" .. not being able to truly let go and be free.. =/ I want to shake them and say, "Come on, show some proper emotion, be lively, smile, laugh, dance!" ... But they just stand there in their languid way and gaze at me placidly with little to no expression on their face. The more I try to make them bouncier, the less they respond. Oh, Fi dual seeking.. you haunt me.

the thing is - what is that? how do you express emotion? how do you laugh for the heck of it? why would i want to dance? why is that enjoyable? what is lively and what do i compare it with.

you have to start with something in order to do those things. i wasn't born with the socializing skill. i have no idea how to flirt or what to do if someone does that to me. i will usually analyze until they leave. i assume they are like that, as not many do that to me. it's all one big joke, as people have made fun of me, or took advantage of me. it's easier to simply be logical. i'd like to have a "fun half" but i need to be taught. for me that stuff is a learned item, not natural.

i'd like those free spirits to be more proper and responsible - but they won't be, because they weren't born with that ability.

There's a time to be proper/responsible and there's a time to let loose. Personally, I like to combine both most of the time =] Your questions are so foreign to me - how to express emotion? You feel it in the soul and show it through your face/body. It is such a glorious experience.. to release what you are experiencing into the outside world. I don't laugh for the "heck of it" .. I find a reason to laugh, of course! I know ILIs do laugh obviously when there is something funny, but I don't like how restrained it always seems. I am just hoping to understand Fe PoLR better, sorry if this comes across a tad offensive (but I doubt it) - what makes you hold back? Is it that you can NOT feel these strong emotions inside your soul, so therefore you can not outwardly show them? Or is it that you do, but just choose not to show them? And why? What is so very frightening about it?

Dancing is just letting yourself be free in the present moment and having fun. Be crazy, go wild! Isn't that what your Dual would tell you?

[olduser]

I do think it is a lack of feeling. It's like this: when everybody else laughs an INTp is thinking about exactly why everyone is laughing. It's not a matter of judgement(they generally don't care) but they are curious and study people in detail. They may even be thinking about each individual and that individual's reason for laughing. INTp's approach 95% of life scientifically, and almost everything they percieve is observed rather than felt. This is actually a characteristic common in most IxTx types. Each one has their own method of organizing the data, and they all have seperate insights.

[mike_INTJ]

ILIs seem to take things a little bit too seriously, IMO. Especially in terms of stuff like this, socializing, speaking and whatnot. They always seem to be so proper and "intellectual" .. not being able to truly let go and be free.. =/ I want to shake them and say, "Come on, show some proper emotion, be lively, smile, laugh, dance!" ... But they just stand there in their languid way and gaze at me placidly with little to no expression on their face. The more I try to make them bouncier, the less they respond. Oh, Fi dual seeking.. you haunt me.

the thing is - what is that? how do you express emotion? how do you laugh for the heck of it? why would i want to dance? why is that enjoyable? what is lively and what do i compare it with.

you have to start with something in order to do those things. i wasn't born with the socializing skill. i have no idea how to flirt or what to do if someone does that to me. i will usually analyze until they leave. i assume they are like that, as not many do that to me. it's all one big joke, as people have made fun of me, or took advantage of me. it's easier to simply be logical. i'd like to have a "fun half" but i need to be taught. for me that stuff is a learned item, not natural.

i'd like those free spirits to be more proper and responsible - but they won't be, because they weren't born with that ability.

There's a time to be proper/responsible and there's a time to let loose. Personally, I like to combine both most of the time =] Your questions are so foreign to me - how to express emotion? You feel it in the soul and show it through your face/body. It is such a glorious experience.. to release what you are experiencing into the outside world. I don't laugh for the "heck of it" .. I find a reason to laugh, of course! I know ILIs do laugh obviously when there is something funny, but I don't like how restrained it always seems. I am just hoping to understand Fe PoLR better, sorry if this comes across a tad offensive (but I doubt it) - what makes you hold back? Is it that you can NOT feel these strong emotions inside your soul, so therefore you can not outwardly show them? Or is it that you do, but just choose not to show them? And why? What is so very frightening about it?

Dancing is just letting yourself be free in the present moment and having fun. Be crazy, go wild! Isn't that what your Dual would tell you?

i'll laugh if something is funny. there aren't many jokes that aren't easily predictable. often the timing stinks. and the things i find funny - other's don't. either too grim or too punned.

emotion is limited. feel the stuff, but i don't see the need to show it. if you show it, you need to explain it if someone questions it. if you leave a smile on your face everyone asks why your happy. why should i explain such a stupid thing?

my emotion base is so strong it's not describable. sort of like a mountain or an iceberg. a small tip on the top, a huge base below. but i don't feel it in a trickle. it's either i can show nothing, or i don't know what to do with it all. this is also matrixed into my trust factors as well it's easy to fall out of my circle of trust. ON or OFF - ENEMY or FRIEND. nothing in between.

there isn't anything freighting about it - i just don't know how to do it - or when it's appropriate. you laugh at the wrong time, or don't show some kind of sadness at the right time and people hate you for it. call you names, call you wierd or strange. you just learn to not bother. i don't care if someone at work dies. leaves on a long vacation, etc i don't miss them that much. i connect time differently than them.

i think too many people show emotion for things that don't involve them. everyone with a bad look on their face when 1000's die in some flood - it didn't involve them, why so glum?

[KSpin]

Yeah. Emotions come out in flashes for me. They'll usually be too strong for me to restrain. I think I've learned to stop listening when someone is talking crap to me, just nod and say, "Yeah"... "uh huh" from time to time and eventually they'll leave you alone.

I hate dancing, because I'm useless at it, and feel embarrassed when people are looking at me doing something that I think isn't appropriate. I don't mind how many are watching when I play badminton or go swimming, but I hate it if it's doing something that shows some kind of emotion, grace or femininity?

Generally, I want to be respected, not loved. :wink: But a little bit of won't go amiss.

[mike_INTJ]

Yeah. Emotions come out in flashes for me. They'll usually be too strong for me to restrain. I think I've learned to stop listening when someone is talking crap to me, just nod and say, "Yeah"... "uh huh" from time to time and eventually they'll leave you alone.

I hate dancing, because I'm useless at it, and feel embarrassed when people are looking at me doing something that I think isn't appropriate. I don't mind how many are watching when I play badminton or go swimming, but I hate it if it's doing something that shows some kind of emotion, grace or femininity?

Generally, I want to be respected, not loved. :wink: But a little bit of won't go amiss.

that's pretty much accurate, i don't like doing something unless i can do it well. dancing i don't do well, and for me, dancing is a lot of work. and i don't like working hard to which it accomplishes nothing. i would have to think high and mighty to myself to think that i was having fun - when it's really work in disguise. i've always wondered how people treat that kind of event as fun.

i assume it's that the extroverted people, consider loud music and many people to be exciting to them because they can share the spirit of free energy that flows around them. and since i can't stand groups, or loud music, etc - and i feel totally drained by it, and on top of that the need to dance on top of that with everyone judging you. it's just not much fun. i suppose that extroverts will never understand this - unless they are repeatably smacked with a board - that its just not fun for everyone.

[Jarno]

lol...

I've known ILIs who were plenty sociable. Not all of them, obviously, but they certainly aren't all recluses...

yep, i used to work with a ENFJ, ESFJ and ESTJ (3 extraverts) and I was the one who did most of the talking of us four.

but then again maybe I just didn't like to work

[Jarno]

Shouldn't be raking up old topics that have settled and died, but oh well...
The ILIs I know are very economical with their words and will express the essence of their thoughts over 10 minutes in one succinct logical sentence. Then they will be quiet for the next 10 minutes until summing up the essence of their thoughts again. Does anyone else have this experience?

haha, sounds familiar.

yes i've had that comment from co-workers who read my letters.


even now i was deleting useless words in the above sentences.

[drd252]

@ Mike_INTJ
@ KSpin

You guys are a bunch of pussies. Just fucking dance. Unless you're at some "super hip" club with a bunch of fake-as-all-hell people, no one really gives a fuck about how you dance; granted, if you're good at it, people will respond positively, however almost no one will come up and insult/belittle/make fun of you (to your face at least) if you have questionable skills.

*Plays some evil dnb and does a little dance in cubicle*

Go to a Drum 'n' Bass show, if you don't find yourself breathless and sweating profusely hours later, you might as well be dead.


BOH!!!

[Jarno]

You guys are a bunch of pussies. *

drd252 you are starting to sound like scarface.
"you're all a bunch of fucking assholes"


to get on topic:

I used to be afraid to dance, or at least I should have been more afraid because I sucked at it and still tried it sometimes...

But nowadays I've learned some simple techniques which make you look like everyone else who can dance. It's easy, and fun too.

[KSpin]

This really does make me question whether drd252 has gotten his type right. I'm extremely skeptical.

[drd252]

This really does make me question whether drd252 has gotten his type right. I'm extremely skeptical.

oh please

I totally understand where you guys are coming from, because I used to be exactly the same way. It took about 5 or 6 years of hard work to get where I am today, in terms of being willing and able to dance. I'm tellin' you, it's worth the effort :wink: