INTj and ESFp conflicting relations (LII-SEE)

[Bluenoir]

i used to have a conflictor boss. i tried adjusting to him with my knowledge of socionics, but i think there's really no escaping your ego functions (or at least i couldn't do it). i guess my only advice would be to keep interaction as minimal as possible (which i would guess you're probably already doing) and take solace in the fact that the situation is only temporary. :wink: my condolences.

It's just the way I tick, any attempt to mimic traits favourable to the SEE, will just make me look awkward. I think I just have to accept that SEE's tick in a way that is ultimately incompatible with myself.

Perhaps I should look for a ILI to keep her busy

It will be intresting to see, as my knowledge of socionics becomes more soild, how the intertype relations play out. Even if I have no soild means of determing type.

[Pulsar41]

Krig the Viking, I am contemplating intj or intp. Could you read what I wrote to see if you relate to it.

If I knew that a particular person would be willing to participate with me I would not mind doing so. I would not mind telling people what to do if I knew they would willingly to it, otherwise, I would not want to bother or make my relations with them more difficult. I would be more willing to tell someone what to do if I knew them personally and knew they would reactive positively to what I said. I would not not mind doing this, and would probably enjoy the comfort of knowing I could do so without hurting their feelings. I probably would be alright having someone tell me what to do if they had the same goals as me, and I trusted them. Otherwise, I would not really enjoy being told what to do.

Also, what about your conflictor irritated you?

[Bluenoir]

Also, what about your conflictor irritated you?

I'm not sure if your question was directed at me or Krig, however since we have the same conflictor, I'll try to answer.

It is not so much anything personal, but everything about her personality irritates me to no end. She fails too realise that good management is not about how many people you can boss around at any one time, instead it's about facilitating the crew, to enable them to best do their jobs. (yes, sometimes that means you have to delegate, but delegation is not an ends in itself.)

She treats the crew as mere means to her goals, she is "above" me so to speak. What she fails to see, is that her authority over me, is given by my consent. recognize my self autonomy dam it!

That and she is irrationally adherent to the "mcdogma" and I don't like dogmatism.

I don't mind being given instruction by a shift supervisor, if there is a task that needs to be done. I DON'T like being bossed around, simply for the sake of a power ego trip of the manager.

[Words]

I'm not sure if your question was directed at me or Krig, however since we have the same conflictor, I'll try to answer.

It is not so much anything personal, but everything about her personality irritates me to no end. She fails too realise that good management is not about how many people you can boss around at any one time, instead it's about facilitating the crew, to enable them to best do their jobs. (yes, sometimes that means you have to delegate, but delegation is not an ends in itself.)

She treats the crew as mere means to her goals, she is "above" me so to speak. What she fails to see, is that her authority over me, is given by my consent. recognize my self autonomy dam it!

That and see is irrationally adherent to the "mcdogma" and I don't like dogmatism.

Just to add another perspective to this, what I found with my conflictor, assuming everyones typed correctly, me being SLI and he being EIE, was that his style of management was too 'personal', it wasn't enough to do the job, he wanted to know all about my private life and ask me questions about who i'm dating and what's going on in my life and if i'm happy or sad etc. I couldn't care less and found it extremely invasive.

Also he seemed to find the need to create additional paperwork, additional controls on what people were doing, which I think was maybe related to Beta ST procedures and heirarchy or something, where as for me I couldn't see the point as the most useful thing was to make the dollars and get the job done as efficiently as possible.

[Bluenoir]

Just to add another perspective to this, what I found with my conflictor, assuming everyones typed correctly, me being SLI and he being EIE, was that his style of management was too 'personal', it wasn't enough to do the job, he wanted to know all about my private life and ask me questions about who i'm dating and what's going on in my life and if i'm happy or sad etc. I couldn't care less and found it extremely invasive.

Also he seemed to find the need to create additional paperwork, additional controls on what people were doing, which I think was maybe related to Beta ST procedures and heirarchy or something, where as for me I couldn't see the point as the most useful thing was to make the dollars and get the job done as efficiently as possible.

Intresting. I actually like managers who try to "rub elbows" with us crew, provided they don't get to invasive of course. It would depend to what extent you're talking. Obviously there is a big difference between "hi, how was your weekend?" Over "hi, so did you have sex last night, if yes, what position did you use

Late edit, I dislike bureaucracy too.

[krieger]

From my own observations, my ESI sister rarely bothers going into extended arguments of extended lengths, maybe its Ij + results. LIIs also seem disposed to cutting things short, e.g. labocat on here.

i've had a suspicion along these lines. far from the worst suggestion.

---

i don't have much experience debating ESI but when talking to my SEE brother in law about loaded topics i find it useful to start the discussion by establishing that i'm on same side as them by acknowledging that their motivating sentiments are valid. you do this by voicing the sentiment from your own point of view in your own words. this is not a hard thing to do because the principles they stand for are rarely rotten at their core, they sometimes just lack a nuanced account of the situation. from that point onward you have some credit to work with and this gives you the ability to subtly nudge the evaluation of the situation in your case's favor without them flying into a rage about it.

[krieger]

my brother in law has certain "reactionary" inclinations but he's generally pretty well receptive to factual arguments when presented with them. in socionics terms i suppose that would be called an active Te HA, but it's probably better described as sanity. i haven't really been having the kind of problems you describe with him.

[krieger]

careful what you say, pardner, you're talking to a taciturn. anyway taciturn is a very subtle and broadly encompassing socionical trait and if there is a workable interpretation of the term i have not found it yet in the years i've spent on this stuff. so i have mixed, mostly negative, feelings about using it as an explanation of any phenomenon along lines that you hint at.

[krieger]

sth came to mind regarding this taciturn thing. it may indeed be pie in the sky, but seems to illustrate ...sth.

i'm mutual friends with istp and entp. both of them had gone heavy drinking one evening. istp drove to the drinking hole. then they decided to drive back. as if this weren't dangerous enough, entp dares istp to speed nonstop through all red lights. istp does this. later on, when entp tells me the story (ya, they survived), i was sorta in disbelief. she says: well, i didn't think he'd *really* go for it. yet entp never mentioned this to istp *while* they're driving through all the traffic lights.

this is sorta how i see taciturn activity: some sort of dare, see if it can fly, see how far can this get. i do think it is more pronounced in positivists, and extraverts, and esp. when both combined.

narrator behavior seems to me to have a lot of inertia behind it. its like the person has a strong sense where things are going and is working out the steps. taciturn is more abrupt and tentative as if the steps themselves are their own justification rather than just bearing out some longer term trajectory. but like i said, this is pretty speculative and to be taken with a grain of sand.

[Trevor]

narrator behavior seems to me to have a lot of inertia behind it. its like the person has a strong sense where things are going and is working out the steps. taciturn is more abrupt and tentative as if the steps themselves are their own justification rather than just bearing out some longer term trajectory. but like i said, this is pretty speculative and to be taken with a grain of sand.

Acknowledged that Rationality = Positive Narrator + Negative Taciturn. And that Irrationality = Negative Narration + Positive Taciturn. And acknowledging that Positivism things are favored over Negativism things. It would follow that a Rational person, as opposed to an Irrational person, would be more likely to favor a behavior that has a lot of inertia behind it. Would be more likely to favor having a strong sense where things are going and working out the steps.
This is in line with what is canonically said of Rational/Irrational types.

Another characterization of Narrator dichotomy that i've heard of has to do with characterizing Narrator activity as having to do with routine. i.e. that Narrator activity has more to do with routine than Taciturn activity has to do with routine. This characterization seems to be in line with how you speculated about Narrativism, @labocat. i.e. a routine activity, as opposed to non-routine activity, seems to have a lot of inertia behind it, its like the person has a strong sense where things are going and is working out the steps.

calling Positivism/Negativism once again, and assigning some stereotypal descriptors: Positivism => Likes, Negativism => Dislikes, Narrator => Routine:
we get the following stereotypes: Rational = Positive Narrator = Likes Routine. Irrational = Negative Narrator = Dislikes Routine.
This is in line with what is canonically said of Rational/Irrational types.

Neat.

[krieger]

that makes sense. thanks for putting that together.

i'd recommend also looking into how Taciturn/Narrator combines with Process/Result if you have the time.

[ClownsandEntropy]

So I'm thinking I might be interested in an SEE - at least I think that's her type. And I'm an LII - at least I believe so. Opinions on how to proceed? At the moment my plan is to just keep in contact with them and see if we continue to enjoy spending time with each other. But it's really a showdown between "trust in Socionics" and "just see what happens".

Here are some descriptions of our interactions, which I guess are less important to read if you're busy:

She hasn't done anything really annoying to me yet. She hasn't expected me to do things and gotten angry when I didn't show my affection. I think she's not got the confidence to go around doing something like that - let alone the desire. Then again, it's early days and such behaviour may emerge in the future. She has a poor ability to focus on things and strong preference for reading facts and being able to recite them - the former is not too annoying as it only emerges when she's studying, and the latter makes conversation interesting because of overlapping interests.

She hasn't gotten bored of me trying to define a concept, and talking aloud while I do so. She also referred to concepts or frameworks when we were describing ourselves. She said to not put too much stock in a specific framework we were talking about, but I could see the validity in that criticism of that specific framework. She has indicated a preference for someone who can see the road ahead and point out things to be worried about - something which I don't have. She seems like she is very capable of achieving projects - something which is actually quite attractive. She has many projects she wants to run, but it doesn't seem like she irresponsibly starts them and then moves on - when talking to her she has a clear desire to make sure what she's going to do is a good use of her time.

She seems like she's good at getting things she wants - which makes me wonder how much is her genuine interest and how much is that I have something that she wants. (Details left ambiguous for anonymity, but feel free to ask clarifying questions if you think it's important).

I'm not sure if she'll eventually consider me "weak" (because of my -Polr) or "unable to contribute" (because of me ignoring ) and get fed up with me. I'm pretty accommodating with decisions, but if something annoys me I would stand up for it, so I'm not sure if that's over the line or not.

Anyway, she's hot. ( )

[Adam Strange]

So I'm thinking I might be interested in an SEE - at least I think that's her type. And I'm an LII - at least I believe so. Opinions on how to proceed? At the moment my plan is to just keep in contact with them and see if we continue to enjoy spending time with each other. But it's really a showdown between "trust in Socionics" and "just see what happens".

Here are some descriptions of our interactions, which I guess are less important to read if you're busy:

She hasn't done anything really annoying to me yet. She hasn't expected me to do things and gotten angry when I didn't show my affection. I think she's not got the confidence to go around doing something like that - let alone the desire. Then again, it's early days and such behaviour may emerge in the future. She has a poor ability to focus on things and strong preference for reading facts and being able to recite them - the former is not too annoying as it only emerges when she's studying, and the latter makes conversation interesting because of overlapping interests.

She hasn't gotten bored of me trying to define a concept, and talking aloud while I do so. She also referred to concepts or frameworks when we were describing ourselves. She said to not put too much stock in a specific framework we were talking about, but I could see the validity in that criticism of that specific framework. She has indicated a preference for someone who can see the road ahead and point out things to be worried about - something which I don't have. She seems like she is very capable of achieving projects - something which is actually quite attractive. She has many projects she wants to run, but it doesn't seem like she irresponsibly starts them and then moves on - when talking to her she has a clear desire to make sure what she's going to do is a good use of her time.

She seems like she's good at getting things she wants - which makes me wonder how much is her genuine interest and how much is that I have something that she wants. (Details left ambiguous for anonymity, but feel free to ask clarifying questions if you think it's important).

I'm not sure if she'll eventually consider me "weak" (because of my -Polr) or "unable to contribute" (because of me ignoring ) and get fed up with me. I'm pretty accommodating with decisions, but if something annoys me I would stand up for it, so I'm not sure if that's over the line or not.

Anyway, she's hot. ( )

Because I didn't know, I looked up your ITR, and Good Grief, it's conflict.

So, of course I'll say that your conflictor can look like your dual.

I have worked with two of my conflictors of different subtypes, and with one it was really, "I can't stand anything about that person" between us, and with the other, it was, "Wow, I really admire this person. They are attractive and smart and really well-turned out. I like them." But then, I told her a few jokes and she was repulsed. Since then, I keep my distance and limit my time with her to the minimum possible, and my feelings have returned to the original, and she seems to like me too. Distance solved the problem.

Not saying your experience will be the same, but it could be.

I like your statement that she gets what she wants, and what she wants might only be your help. I think I've seen this with ESI-Se's and possibly with SEE's. It's hard to tell with the latter because my experience is limited and I might be false-attributing from too little data. Everyone wants something from other people. The question to ask is, can you both get what you want with minimal cost and psychic dissonance? Extra bonus question: Would you both fight tooth and nail to keep the other around?

I wish you the best of luck. I think SEE''s like guys who are indifferent to them, so you might get further with this approach: only agree to go to bed with her when she wants you to hold her and then see what develops, but it's your relationship and you should run it the way you see fit.

I'm always interested in the real-world playing out of socionics ITR's, so keep us posted. People are always saying, "Forget socionics, just be yourself and do what you want." I think of these people as the kind to light firecrackers in their teeth and then spit them out before they explode and say "See? I told you there was no problem", but maybe I'm wrong.

[Number 9 large]

So I'm thinking I might be interested in an SEE - at least I think that's her type. And I'm an LII - at least I believe so. Opinions on how to proceed? At the moment my plan is to just keep in contact with them and see if we continue to enjoy spending time with each other. But it's really a showdown between "trust in Socionics" and "just see what happens".

Here are some descriptions of our interactions, which I guess are less important to read if you're busy:

She hasn't done anything really annoying to me yet. She hasn't expected me to do things and gotten angry when I didn't show my affection. I think she's not got the confidence to go around doing something like that - let alone the desire. Then again, it's early days and such behaviour may emerge in the future. She has a poor ability to focus on things and strong preference for reading facts and being able to recite them - the former is not too annoying as it only emerges when she's studying, and the latter makes conversation interesting because of overlapping interests.

She hasn't gotten bored of me trying to define a concept, and talking aloud while I do so. She also referred to concepts or frameworks when we were describing ourselves. She said to not put too much stock in a specific framework we were talking about, but I could see the validity in that criticism of that specific framework. She has indicated a preference for someone who can see the road ahead and point out things to be worried about - something which I don't have. She seems like she is very capable of achieving projects - something which is actually quite attractive. She has many projects she wants to run, but it doesn't seem like she irresponsibly starts them and then moves on - when talking to her she has a clear desire to make sure what she's going to do is a good use of her time.

She seems like she's good at getting things she wants - which makes me wonder how much is her genuine interest and how much is that I have something that she wants. (Details left ambiguous for anonymity, but feel free to ask clarifying questions if you think it's important).

I'm not sure if she'll eventually consider me "weak" (because of my -Polr) or "unable to contribute" (because of me ignoring ) and get fed up with me. I'm pretty accommodating with decisions, but if something annoys me I would stand up for it, so I'm not sure if that's over the line or not.

Anyway, she's hot. ( )

just go for it. chances are big youre not even LII and/or she not even SEE

[Alomoes]

So I'm thinking I might be interested in an SEE - at least I think that's her type. And I'm an LII - at least I believe so. Opinions on how to proceed? At the moment my plan is to just keep in contact with them and see if we continue to enjoy spending time with each other. But it's really a showdown between "trust in Socionics" and "just see what happens".

Here are some descriptions of our interactions, which I guess are less important to read if you're busy:

She hasn't done anything really annoying to me yet. She hasn't expected me to do things and gotten angry when I didn't show my affection. I think she's not got the confidence to go around doing something like that - let alone the desire. Then again, it's early days and such behaviour may emerge in the future. She has a poor ability to focus on things and strong preference for reading facts and being able to recite them - the former is not too annoying as it only emerges when she's studying, and the latter makes conversation interesting because of overlapping interests.

She hasn't gotten bored of me trying to define a concept, and talking aloud while I do so. She also referred to concepts or frameworks when we were describing ourselves. She said to not put too much stock in a specific framework we were talking about, but I could see the validity in that criticism of that specific framework. She has indicated a preference for someone who can see the road ahead and point out things to be worried about - something which I don't have. She seems like she is very capable of achieving projects - something which is actually quite attractive. She has many projects she wants to run, but it doesn't seem like she irresponsibly starts them and then moves on - when talking to her she has a clear desire to make sure what she's going to do is a good use of her time.

She seems like she's good at getting things she wants - which makes me wonder how much is her genuine interest and how much is that I have something that she wants. (Details left ambiguous for anonymity, but feel free to ask clarifying questions if you think it's important).

I'm not sure if she'll eventually consider me "weak" (because of my -Polr) or "unable to contribute" (because of me ignoring ) and get fed up with me. I'm pretty accommodating with decisions, but if something annoys me I would stand up for it, so I'm not sure if that's over the line or not.

Anyway, she's hot. ( )

Well, the way I see is that if it works out, then logically you are wrong, right?

Actually, this is one of the problems I have with this system. It's too easy to do this. :c

Hey, I believe I've finally hit acceptance on my socionics stages of grief.

or is this depression?

anyways, I'm trying a new format for posts again. stream of consciousness style. No proofreading.

Finally, I'd say that we know your perceptions on the subject, I'd be interested to know the other side.

If if it were me, I'd ask her how she feels about the stuff you meantioned and then proceed from there. Censor if you want, just know that I'm An idiot, and shouldn't be trusted unless what I say is good. Also, not much of what you said is bad, I just censor always as a habit. If I wasn't doing stream of consciousness, this would all be Incredibly different.

Edit well, I censored by habit. I was going to say you would do best to say all that you said here because then we'd know if she really was worth your time. So yeah.

[ClownsandEntropy]

Because I didn't know, I looked up your ITR, and Good Grief, it's conflict.

Yeah let's do this bring it on.

The question to ask is, can you both get what you want with minimal cost and psychic dissonance? Extra bonus question: Would you both fight tooth and nail to keep the other around?

Yeah I mean so far it's been alright re: cost and psychic dissonance. But maybe when we're three months deep into the relationship we'll start resenting each other and we'll both leave feeling fundamentally broken. Who knows!

I mean, right now I wouldn't fight tooth and nail. I'm still deciding whether I want to date her or not.

I wish you the best of luck. I think SEE''s like guys who are indifferent to them, so you might get further with this approach: only agree to go to bed with her when she wants you to hold her and then see what develops.

She could confuse my strong unconsciousness of as being strong indifference to being with her romantically. Until we actually sleep together.

I'm always interested in the real-world playing out of socionics ITR's, so keep us posted.

Yeah I'm interested to see what will happen. FOR SCIENCE.

[ClownsandEntropy]

just go for it. chances are big youre not even LII and/or she not even SEE

I mean she vibes SEE from my description, I think. And I vibe LII from my self-typing - I haven't had many people here dispute it, at least.

If if it were me, I'd ask her how she feels about the stuff you meantioned and then proceed from there...I was going to say you would do best to say all that you said here because then we'd know if she really was worth your time. So yeah.

I think most of the things I would bring up are stuff you don't bring up in the "flirting" stage of a relationship. For example, "I am worried that you think I'm weak and unhelpful. Do you think I am?" would probably really confuse me and make me feel uncomfortable. Maybe if we become closer I may be able to bring this up, or intuit it.

[Adam Strange]

I think most of the things I would bring up are stuff you don't bring up in the "flirting" stage of a relationship. For example, "I am worried that you think I'm weak and unhelpful. Do you think I am?" would probably really confuse me and make me feel uncomfortable. Maybe if we become closer I may be able to bring this up, or intuit it.

GAAAHH.. I can't imagine an ILI ever having this convo. There is a world of difference between a Victim and a Care Receiver.

https://i.imgur.com/ThXVJoM.jpg

[Sol]

So I'm thinking I might be interested in an SEE - at least I think that's her type. And I'm an LII

you are not LII. her type is also unknown
so you may forget about Socionics with your typing skills

[ClownsandEntropy]

GAAAHH.. I can't imagine an ILI ever having this convo. There is a world of difference between a Victim and a Care Receiver.

https://i.imgur.com/ThXVJoM.jpg

Yeah I couldn't imagine having this convo with people I was interested in for a long time. Although I'd like to, eventually, when I feel like I can trust and be close to them. Or, you know, when I'm talking to people on the internet.

And yes exactly your comic. Your comic so much.

[The Exception]

you are not LII. her type is also unknown
so you may forget about Socionics with your typing skills

Wow! I can't believe how rude you are with that comment.
Do you say this to everyone who self-types themselves differently from the type that you would type them as?

[Sol]

I can't believe how rude you are with that comment.

There is nothing rude. I just say what is important for people in theme of this forum.

> Do you say this to everyone who self-types themselves differently from the type that you would type them as?

In common. Such mistakes are not good for them. I help them.

[ClownsandEntropy]

Wow! I can't believe how rude you are with that comment.
Do you say this to everyone who self-types themselves differently from the type that you would type them as?

Nah nah nah - It's cool. I don't know how others respond in other situations, but at least right now I'm not feeling attacked by Sol .

[Bertrand]

There is nothing rude. I just say what is important for people in theme of this forum.

> Do you say this to everyone who self-types themselves differently from the type that you would type them as?

In common. Such mistakes are not good for them. I help them.

yeah, calm down ESE

[Sol]

yeah, calm down ESE

The Exception seems does not like my Te style or too cares about feelings of people who don't hold when someone in the world disagrees with them

[Bertrand]

clearly

[Rebelondeck]

From an LII perspective, I found that benefit, supervision, quasi-identical and mirror were more problematic than conflicting. SEEs do seem to have conflicting objectives and directions in life, and they seem to be the ones that are more likely to seek better relationships. I think both have a handle on each other's thinking styles enough to make each other's life miserable if they wanted to do that. Many LIIs often feel played with or treated like a toy even when SEEs are deadly serious; they often adopt the attitude of what's the point in trying to reach the SEEs mark if the bar is continually moved - like trying to pee through a rolling doughnut. Oddly enough, I once saw a conflict partnership work out really well for one retired couple; each was able to compensate for many of the other's weaknesses because they were headed in the same direction.......
a.k.a. I/O

[User Name]

Hi guys, I think I have a problem.

There is this SEE girl. She's always so enthusiastic, on the go and hyperactive. Let's say, the stereotypical "partying girl", the one who easily gets bored if there no excitement in the room. Although we have absolutely nothing in common, I'm in some ways attracted to her. At times, I try to flirt with my Childlike style and it seems to work quite well (she laughs a lot at my jokes, sometimes punching me in different parts of my body and seeks eye contact very much). The real problem is that I feel very intellectually distant from her. Anytime I say something a bit more complicated () or romantic (/), especially reflections about time and life, she reacts kinda superficially. Like: "Look at the moon, it's so fucking beautiful tonight." - "Shut the fuck up and keep walking, it's damn cold out here." Said that I have no interest in her, I'd like to figure out: why do I feel attracted to my conflictor and why does she loathe my supplies when she's supposed to seek them?

[Number 9 large]

Maybe shes ESE and ni polr xd

[wacey]

Hi guys, I think I have a problem.

There is this SEE girl. She's always so enthusiastic, on the go and hyperactive. Let's say, the stereotypical "partying girl", the one who easily gets bored if there no excitement in the room. Although we have absolutely nothing in common, I'm in some ways attracted to her. At times, I try to flirt with my Childlike style and it seems to work quite well (she laughs a lot at my jokes, sometimes punching me in different parts of my body and seeks eye contact very much). The real problem is that I feel very intellectually distant from her. Anytime I say something a bit more complicated () or romantic (/), especially reflections about time and life, she reacts kinda superficially. Like: "Look at the moon, it's so fucking beautiful tonight." - "Shut the fuck up and keep walking, it's damn cold out here." Said that I have no interest in her, I'd like to figure out: why do I feel attracted to my conflictor and why does she loathe my supplies when she's supposed to seek them?

Maybe you are just attracted to her and there is no rhyme nor reason for it?

With the moon statement, I think a supply of Ni at her reaction would be, "why did you say that? I'm trying to share something with you right now and you acted so rude?" That would probably throw her off guard because its probably not how you are most other times and it is a very Fi thing to explore. IMO, accelerate the confliction. Because otherwise you are just kinda wasting your time, you know what I mean? She makes you feel great and she is fun, but its just not going to work. Sucks :/ but learn what you can and move forward man. Don't waste your time on people who don't ignite your soul. I mean, if you want to learn about humanity and the human condition and who and what you are, then sure, do that, otherwise, just call your loses. That's my advice, it's what I would do if I was in your shoes.

As to why she is not picking up your Ni, hmm, well, maybe she senses its not genuine? Maybe she's not all that interested because it feels like it is coming from Ne more than Ni? Maybe she is watching you when she punches you..seeing how you respond? Maybe she is assembling her "its cold let's go" unconsciously from you, seeing that its what you are needing and she thinks that is what she is providing for you? A ESE is going to be aware of such things as well, I know from my own exp. Most times, people are doing things out of love. It sounds like it could be sympathy for you in that moment.

[Audacious]

While growing up, I spent quite some time with two SEE aunts. The most fun I had was usually in their homes. That's how I developed an appreciation for SEEs.

As an adult, SEEs and I get along well when:
- Our expectations are generally low. Eg: they know better than to invite me clubbing or to theme parks.
- We're informing each other of things our base function does rather than expecting the other to actively perform in that way. Eg: SEEs tell me about their frequent travels, art projects, other interests. It feeds my mind by giving me ideas and information.
- We talk about relationships
- We talk about fashion
- We talk about money and finding deals
- We talk about skincare
- I teach them about their gadgets

SEEs give me feedback like:
- "How old are your sandals?"
- "If you keep holding your umbrella that way, isn't that really nice purse of yours going to be ruined?"
- Regarding my then-stalker: "You stared him down? Show me how you did it. LII, that's not staring someone down. That looks more like an intense sexy look. [laughs] But anyway, it worked. He hasn't come around here again, right? That's all that matters. I'll let you know if he does."

We are never going to be madly in love with each other. But I enjoy their company. The range I feel most comfortable with them would be casual to somewhat close friends.

[User Name]

Maybe you are just attracted to her and there is no rhyme nor reason for it?

With the moon statement, I think a supply of Ni at her reaction would be, "why did you say that? I'm trying to share something with you right now and you acted so rude?" That would probably throw her off guard because its probably not how you are most other times and it is a very Fi thing to explore. IMO, accelerate the confliction. Because otherwise you are just kinda wasting your time, you know what I mean? She makes you feel great and she is fun, but its just not going to work. Sucks :/ but learn what you can and move forward man. Don't waste your time on people who don't ignite your soul. I mean, if you want to learn about humanity and the human condition and who and what you are, then sure, do that, otherwise, just call your loses. That's my advice, it's what I would do if I was in your shoes.

As to why she is not picking up your Ni, hmm, well, maybe she senses its not genuine? Maybe she's not all that interested because it feels like it is coming from Ne more than Ni? Maybe she is watching you when she punches you..seeing how you respond? Maybe she is assembling her "its cold let's go" unconsciously from you, seeing that its what you are needing and she thinks that is what she is providing for you? A ESE is going to be aware of such things as well, I know from my own exp. Most times, people are doing things out of love. It sounds like it could be sympathy for you in that moment.

Well, I don't think I'm wasting my time. I just wanna have fun with my friends and, at the same time, I want to understand how I relate to others. Nothing serious, I'm not looking for someone to "ignite my soul" yet.

The strange thing is that she seems to avoid both and . In any circumstances. If I want to successfully communicate with her, I must enter her "comfort zone" (//), otherwise she won't take me seriously. Because she's a strong Enneagram 7w8, I would exclude the possibility of her being an ESE. Also the Ep temperament is easily recognizable.

[wacey]

Well, I don't think I'm wasting my time. I just wanna have fun with my friends and, at the same time, I want to understand how I relate to others. Nothing serious, I'm not looking for someone to "ignite my soul" yet.

The strange thing is that she seems to avoid both and . In any circumstances. If I want to successfully communicate with her, I must enter her "comfort zone" (//), otherwise she won't take me seriously. Because she's a strong Enneagram 7w8, I would exclude the possibility of her being an ESE. Also the Ep temperament is easily recognizable.

Ah, I see. I assumed it was a romantic interest, my bad.

[Bethanyclaire]

From an LII perspective, I found that benefit, supervision, quasi-identical and mirror were more problematic than conflicting. SEEs do seem to have conflicting objectives and directions in life, and they seem to be the ones that are more likely to seek better relationships. I think both have a handle on each other's thinking styles enough to make each other's life miserable if they wanted to do that. Many LIIs often feel played with or treated like a toy even when SEEs are deadly serious; they often adopt the attitude of what's the point in trying to reach the SEEs mark if the bar is continually moved - like trying to pee through a rolling doughnut. Oddly enough, I once saw a conflict partnership work out really well for one retired couple; each was able to compensate for many of the other's weaknesses because they were headed in the same direction.......
a.k.a. I/O

aw