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Thread: ISFj uncovered

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    Default ISFj uncovered

    I'd say it's a generally accurate depiction of the more Fi version of ISFjs (ex. my mother), but the very Se kind of could not relate.


    ISFjs are deeply sensitive individuals for whom the normal "give-and-take" of every-day life is a threatening, anxiety-producing affair and they usually hide from confrontations however minor. Instead, they will stew. Their feelings are easily hurt and they do not know how to verbalize their displeasure without "making a federal case" out of trivial issues.

    They are not the most optimistic of persons. Fearing the spontaneous side of life makes them attempt to control everything and everybody in their lives.

    They have a propensity to jump to conclusions. Being hesitant to discuss any subject that may lead to their psychological or emotional discomfort, they will stand by their frequently error-ridden judgements without ever trying to verify them. Their inability outside the home to willingly confront issues leads them to "take it home" where they expect their mates to uphold and support them. They are not, however, willing listeners to criticism or advice that is not supportive of their positions, particularly if told they invite much of the abuse.
    Well to criticize is just the wrong approach. You have to say nothing, and just ask for the name of the people they are having issues with; while they are letting off steam they don't think you are going to go there telling them off; when you have the information, without telling the ISFj anything, you go there and tell those people to die, and then report back, and usually they're okay with it.



    So ISFjs exhibit a propensity to see one side of an issue - the side with which they agree. For this reason, they can be difficult to interact with on a personal level and their self-imposed martyrdom becomes tiresome. Every argument becomes a "poor me" statement or a "do you know how that makes me feel" statement without addressing the facts.

    Their need to control in an attempt to subvert "bad things happening" can also create and transmit tension to all around them. If they are not able to resolve internal conflicts and anxieties, they, because of their inability to give voice to their inner turmoil, can bring out psychosomatic illnesses to draw attention away or to extricate them from the give-and-take dynamics of life. If not, they could explode with physical violence.
    This seems generally accurate but it should be noted that the behaviour described is mostly apparent during times of stress.
    Also they have a "switch" for arguments unfortunately. They need to know what they can discuss and what they cannot. Usually they'll prod people closest to them until they explode in anger and only this way they will know that the subject cannot be touched. I have seen this happening with my mother and talking about my relationship, and with a girl I was going out with and her smoking cigarettes as an habit.

    Although they are generally sweet personalities, their mood swings make it difficult for people to be comfortable with them on a continuing basis and make them difficult to understand since they do not give voice to inner and outer struggles. They are generally able to be demonstratively affectionate but only with family members within the shelter of their own homes where they tend to "own" the home, the spouse, the children, etc. ISFjs often go unappreciated because they give quietly and unobtrusively in their martyr-like way.
    Eh, exaggerated. They can stand up for themselves pretty well, imho. Martyr isn't accurate. Usually ISFjs rarely refuse to take up an obligation but they let the other party know when it is too much.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    I don't know how accurate this is, but only about 10% of it felt like it fit me. It sounded like the author's perspective was steeped in stereotype.

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    Quote Originally Posted by discojoe
    I don't know how accurate this is, but only about 10% of it felt like it fit me. It sounded like the author's perspective was steeped in stereotype.
    well this is sergei ganin after all

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    Heh, the first part certainly seemed true of that Meg Ryan interview...but I agree, it's a pretty shitty description.

    Then again, it's not like the ILE one is any closer to being cushy...

    http://socionics.com/prof/entp2.htm
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Quote Originally Posted by niffweed17
    Quote Originally Posted by discojoe
    I don't know how accurate this is, but only about 10% of it felt like it fit me. It sounded like the author's perspective was steeped in stereotype.
    well this is sergei ganin after all
    lol

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    I don't think it's good even as caricature. At best, it's a caricature of an ISFj on the brink of a breakdown.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    ...And the ILE one isn't?
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    ...And the ILE one isn't?
    Not on the nerve of a breakdrown -- more like verging on psychopath.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Creepy-Diana

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    .

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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    I don't think it's good even as caricature. At best, it's a caricature of an ISFj on the brink of a breakdown.
    I think all the uncovered profiles refer to people not at their healthiest moments.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Creepy-Diana

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    .

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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    I don't think it's good even as caricature. At best, it's a caricature of an ISFj on the brink of a breakdown.
    I think all the uncovered profiles refer to people not at their healthiest moments.
    Yeah.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Default ISFj uncovered

    there isn't one on socionics.com. talk shit about ISFjs here.

    it will be more entertaining if you keep the cliche "judgmental cold bitch" stuff to a minimum & put a lil more thought into it.

    ISFjs can be postured and boring/easily bored and stupidly reactive (good internet troll bait).

    EDIT: actually there is an uncovered description, i just didn't see it. and this thread goes on a bunch of tangents.
    Last edited by lump; 03-19-2013 at 12:02 AM.

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    i keep second guessing this. paranoia about making generalizations = weak ne + holographic cognition?????????????????????????
    i made post once where i talked about not minding awkward moments. and then i made a thread complaining about an awkward guy and have since bitched about awkwardness more than once. because i was thinking of certain specific situations once and then other specific situations at other times. and i keep waiting to get called out on that. i'm really sorry. i wasn't trying to lie. i wasn't lying on purpose. i'm sorry. sorry.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lungs View Post
    i keep second guessing this. paranoia about making generalizations = weak ne + holographic cognition?????????????????????????
    i made post once where i talked about not minding awkward moments. and then i made a thread complaining about an awkward guy and have since bitched about awkwardness more than once. because i was thinking of certain specific situations once and then other specific situations at other times. and i keep waiting to get called out on that. i'm really sorry. i wasn't trying to lie. i wasn't lying on purpose. i'm sorry. sorry.
    I'm nervous about making generalizations too because I don't want to be contradictory or just plain wrong in the future, so I usually throw in qualifying words like "maybe" or "in some cases" but I don't really like doing that either because it sounds wishy washy.

    I'm also hesitant about typing other people because I don't want to magnify something I've seen in a particular context to something more than it actually is, and what if I change my mind or see something different in the future? I keep having internal opinions about it though.

    I don't know if that has anything to do with ISFjs per se though.

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    How clear is the Wikisocion description of your Ne?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wikisocion!
    4. Extraverted Intuition

    A) The ESI is highly skeptical about ideas and opportunities that may appear not to lead anywhere specifically, and seeks concrete assurance that actual material benefits will be achieved. The ESI prefers the kind of ideation that seems to lead somewhere (offer solutions) rather than the sort that is most likely to bring upheaval and unwanted changes. So they don't want to hear about all the possible problems in a situation, they'd rather hear only the very likely problems if there are any, and the benefits.

    B)The ESI dislikes evaluations of people's potential to engage in activities or develop skills in which they haven't had experience yet; above all he is uncomfortable with such discussions by other people regarding himself. This makes the ESI concerned about the impression he makes on other people in those areas. He is inclined to be either over-skeptical of his own potential or going to the other extreme and overestimate his possibilities in specific areas on occasion.

    C) ESIs are often amused by, and attracted to, demonstrations of the intense use of by others if at least tangentially connected to ideas that might have some practical use ( ); but they are repelled by it if used in such a way as to excessively contextualize ethics to the point of irrelevancy.
     
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saberstorm View Post
    How clear is the Wikisocion description of your Ne?
    is this a type questioning thing?

    i relate to a lot of it. but at one point i related to a lot of the Se polr description. which is an example of how i suck at generalizing about myself.
    (which i could call an Ne polr fail at seeing internal qualities/potential. if i wanted to. maybe you could call it something else.)

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    or were you "talking shit" by posting the polr description? i don't get what you're doing.

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    i relate to a lot of it. but at one point i related to a lot of the Se polr description.
    by "at one point" you mean not anymore?

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    Quote Originally Posted by labster View Post
    by "at one point" you mean not anymore?
    i just read the one from the eii description on the wiki just now to refresh my memory and it was completely foreign to my self concept. which is depressing.
    the only explanation i can think of is that i received some criticism from my sli ex about some of it, like keeping track of my surroundings, but i think i took his criticism more seriously at the time than i should have and i do just fine with that stuff by myself lol.
    i think a lot of the reason i was drawn to typology in the first place is because of the insecurity i have about being able to trace general patterns in my own behavior and why i can be such an attention whore for opinions about it sometimes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lungs View Post
    there isn't one on socionics.com. talk shit about ISFjs here.

    it will be more entertaining if you keep the cliche "judgmental cold bitch" stuff to a minimum & put a lil more thought into it.

    ISFjs can be postured and boring/easily bored and stupidly reactive (good internet troll bait).
    Perhaps machintruc's VERY offensive description of ESI is a good starting point?
    The future of Socionics:
    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    Many black Americans are SEE type.

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    Quote Originally Posted by consentingadult View Post
    Perhaps machintruc's VERY offensive description of ESI is a good starting point?
    lol thanks but was kinda hoping for posts from people i could take seriously

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    Quote Originally Posted by lungs View Post
    lol thanks but was kinda hoping for posts from people i could take seriously
    My apologies, my mistake. I forgot you have Ne-PoLR
    The future of Socionics:
    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    Many black Americans are SEE type.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lungs View Post
    i keep second guessing this. paranoia about making generalizations = weak ne + holographic cognition?????????????????????????
    i made post once where i talked about not minding awkward moments. and then i made a thread complaining about an awkward guy and have since bitched about awkwardness more than once. because i was thinking of certain specific situations once and then other specific situations at other times. and i keep waiting to get called out on that. i'm really sorry. i wasn't trying to lie. i wasn't lying on purpose. i'm sorry. sorry.
    it's probs the type of awkwardness! Nevermind words getting in the way of meaning and all of that shit. Like yeah, it's usually easy to bulldoze through awkwardness by just getting louder and louder and more awesome unless every other person in the vicinity is being a nervous jittery little bitch about things; in that case, a big smile and a "well fuuuuck you guys! way to suck at everything" makes for a cool exit.

    ESIs, like yeah, you all got like lots of feelings or something! And I love it but yeah, I get the impression that stuff cuts you all a bit deeper than it does me, and with a proportionately smaller reaction on the surface, and then I'll end up point blank asking something like "are you pissed off at me?" and then I'll get a short choppy ambiguous response and then it's like oh shit I gotta figure this one out myself and fix it!

    And yeah, once again on the awkwardness, if anyone ever says the word "awkward" out loud at you, then you gotta blast them for making it awkward by saying the word! Like yeah, if they would have kept on going, then it would have been solid, but they dropped the ball, and they're like the biggest dork ever for that shit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by woofwoofl View Post
    And yeah, once again on the awkwardness, if anyone ever says the word "awkward" out loud at you, then you gotta blast them for making it awkward by saying the word! Like yeah, if they would have kept on going, then it would have been solid, but they dropped the ball, and they're like the biggest dork ever for that shit.
    lmao word

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    I am not trying to mess with you. I am seeking understanding. When somebody is assessing your potentials, it feels uncomfortable, but how? Can you discribe it?

    What would make being "sized up" less uncomfortable to you?
     
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saberstorm View Post
    I am not trying to mess with you. I am seeking understanding. When somebody is assessing your potentials, it feels uncomfortable, but how? Can you discribe it?

    What would make being "sized up" less uncomfortable to you?
    i don't mind being sized up? i usually like it? like, i'm one of the people who will ask hitta to analyze me lol.

    i suppose the part of the description you're referring to must be where it talks about evaluating skills & potential in areas that i haven't had experience in yet. i'm not sure if i'm bothered by this. i can only imagine it being grating if it were something specific and prescriptive - "lungs has shown via x and y that she has creative ability" would be different than "lungs should go to art school," and i welcome the former more than the latter. but i think thats normal? (the latter sounds presumptuous? or does it?) but even then, that sort of thing doesn't bother me to the degree where i'd say ~polr hit~ !

    maybe with a specific example?

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    Quote Originally Posted by fairylights View Post
    I'm nervous about making generalizations too because I don't want to be contradictory or just plain wrong in the future, so I usually throw in qualifying words like "maybe" or "in some cases" but I don't really like doing that either because it sounds wishy washy.

    I'm also hesitant about typing other people because I don't want to magnify something I've seen in a particular context to something more than it actually is, and what if I change my mind or see something different in the future? I keep having internal opinions about it though.

    I don't know if that has anything to do with ISFjs per se though.
    I do the same. Not sure it's ISFj related. Maybe just Fi ego. Or something.
    And I would hide my face in you and you would hide your face in me, and nobody would ever see us any more.


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    I guess I mean a more a informal sizing up, like socially, like establishing a reputation??? People I tend to think are ESI seem to be very senstive, very "touchy" in a "are you fucking with me" kind of way.

    I am trying to figure out this PoLR.
     
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    Quote Originally Posted by fen View Post
    I do the same. Not sure it's ISFj related. Maybe just Fi ego. Or something.
    or the ambiguity issues of enneagram 6 & 9. or weak Ti. or the phases of the moon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lungs View Post
    or the ambiguity issues of enneagram 6 & 9. or weak Ti. or the phases of the moon.
    Thus "or something." <3
    And I would hide my face in you and you would hide your face in me, and nobody would ever see us any more.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Saberstorm View Post
    I guess I mean a more a informal sizing up, like socially, like establishing a reputation??? People I tend to think are ESI seem to be very senstive, very "touchy" in a "are you fucking with me" kind of way.

    I am trying to figure out this PoLR.
    i don't think overly much about establishing a social reputation. but i'm so-last.

    i'm pretty guarded with people i don't know and i can see how i might give off a "touchy/are you fucking with me" vibe in certain situations- like sometimes people i only just met will tease me too much and it feels invasive and i can be bristly when that happens. but it all depends.

    one thing i've seen play out in myself which i think could be attributed to Ne polr is more discomfort than others when it comes to not knowing how something is going to play out or what the motivating factor is in situations, to the point where i'll just run with something (not quite arbitrarily, but...sort of). or responding to the unknown by staying mired in a situation for way too long.

    i'm not sure there's anything i see in myself polr-wise that i could imagine playing out in the context of what you wrote.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lungs View Post
    ISFj uncovered
    there isn't one on socionics.com.
    There is now: Open Sesame

    Quote Originally Posted by lungs View Post
    and i keep waiting to get called out on that.
    Don't, your wish may come true.

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    omg i just looked a few hours ago and didn't see it. thanks @Absurd

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    Quote Originally Posted by lungs View Post
    i keep second guessing this. paranoia about making generalizations = weak ne + holographic cognition?????????????????????????
    i made post once where i talked about not minding awkward moments. and then i made a thread complaining about an awkward guy and have since bitched about awkwardness more than once. because i was thinking of certain specific situations once and then other specific situations at other times. and i keep waiting to get called out on that. i'm really sorry. i wasn't trying to lie. i wasn't lying on purpose. i'm sorry. sorry.
    I don't mind making generalizations because I know from having read about ideas and the evolution of ideas, and my general strength and command of ideas, that generalizations are wide rooms where things can change and things in the world change as well so it's all good.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lungs View Post
    is this a type questioning thing?

    i relate to a lot of it. but at one point i related to a lot of the Se polr description. which is an example of how i suck at generalizing about myself.
    (which i could call an Ne polr fail at seeing internal qualities/potential. if i wanted to. maybe you could call it something else.)
    Ne and Se is qualities of objects in front of you; for example a good use of Ne was with Handiace and ashton, when gummy was showing arial views of los angeles, ashton made fussy sounds; where Se would have simply observed ashton make fussy sounds and said "ashton's being fussy" Ne, handiace, said "ashton doesn't seem to appreciate architecture" deducing the IDEA from observation about some quality about ashton that isn't apparent, this quality may or may not be accurate because it devalues Se, the absolute reality of what is, but deduces and comes to make an approximate idea of what could or is possibly there. You see?

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    Quote Originally Posted by felafel View Post
    ^Maritsa, all rational functions generalize. They have to by definition. It's just a rational thing. Nothing to do with Ne or lack of Ne or other perceptive cookies.
    I didn't say it was related to Ne, or ideas.

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    cookies

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    this actually does match my observations though. (with some Ne base types)

    but it does click theoretically that rational elements would generalize. but i just said i suck at generalizing and i'm rational. but i suppose i can see how i generalize in some ways related to Fi. i hate socionics.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    Ne and Se is qualities of objects in front of you; for example a good use of Ne was with Handiace and ashton, when gummy was showing arial views of los angeles, ashton made fussy sounds; where Se would have simply observed ashton make fussy sounds and said "ashton's being fussy" Ne, handiace, said "ashton doesn't seem to appreciate architecture" deducing the IDEA from observation about some quality about ashton that isn't apparent, this quality may or may not be accurate because it devalues Se, the absolute reality of what is, but deduces and comes to make an approximate idea of what could or is possibly there. You see?

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    Quote Originally Posted by felafel View Post
    ps: i like ganin's uncovereds btw, even tho there's obvious alpha bias
    yea it was a fun read. obviously i don't feel like "omg thats like sooooo me" but it was entertaining and i can see it and some of it lined up with criticism ive received in my life.

    here it is, copy & pasted in all its glory.

    __________________________________________________ _

    ISFjs are deeply sensitive individuals for whom the normal "give-and-take" of every-day life is a threatening, anxiety-producing affair and they usually hide from confrontations however minor. Instead, they will stew. Their feelings are easily hurt and they do not know how to verbalize their displeasure without "making a federal case" out of trivial issues.

    They are not the most optimistic of persons. Fearing the spontaneous side of life makes them attempt to control everything and everybody in their lives.

    They have a propensity to jump to conclusions. Being hesitant to discuss any subject that may lead to their psychological or emotional discomfort, they will stand by their frequently error-ridden judgements without ever trying to verify them. Their inability outside the home to willingly confront issues leads them to "take it home" where they expect their mates to uphold and support them. They are not, however, willing listeners to criticism or advice that is not supportive of their positions, particularly if told they invite much of the abuse.

    So ISFjs exhibit a propensity to see one side of an issue - the side with which they agree. For this reason, they can be difficult to interact with on a personal level and their self-imposed martyrdom becomes tiresome. Every argument becomes a "poor me" statement or a "do you know how that makes me feel" statement without addressing the facts.

    Their need to control in an attempt to subvert "bad things happening" can also create and transmit tension to all around them. If they are not able to resolve internal conflicts and anxieties, they, because of their inability to give voice to their inner turmoil, can bring out psychosomatic illnesses to draw attention away or to extricate them from the give-and-take dynamics of life. If not, they could explode with physical violence.

    Although they are generally sweet personalities, their mood swings make it difficult for people to be comfortable with them on a continuing basis and make them difficult to understand since they do not give voice to inner and outer struggles. They are generally able to be demonstratively affectionate but only with family members within the shelter of their own homes where they tend to "own" the home, the spouse, the children, etc. ISFjs often go unappreciated because they give quietly and unobtrusively in their martyr-like way.

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