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Thread: Business/Look-alike Relations: Stories and Experiences

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    Default Business/Look-alike Relations: Stories and Experiences

    Experiances with look-a-like relationships? I want to know if mine is typical or not...
    I'm only a perfectionist when I am not lazy.
    The Humanitarian
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    I almost always get along with INFjs.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    They feel very positive in the early, "superficial" stages when it's about activities together and having more or less casual conversations. The common temperament and a lot of the functional ordering leads to understanding on many points, but as the relationship deepens it becomes clear that there is a fundamental difference in the deeper motivations and priorities.

    EDIT: I had relationships with two ENFjs, and it proceeded as I just described. The early stages were very easy, but there was always a sort of disconnect.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Yes. (And) The whole factor of being of the same temperament, and one subconsciously molding into the dual of the other more so, can create psychological stress over time, IMO/E
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    Quote Originally Posted by UDP III
    Yes. (And) The whole factor of being of the same temperament, and one subconsciously molding into the dual of the other more so, can create psychological stress over time, IMO/E
    That's interesting... so one of the look-a-like will change themselves in such a way so that they are their dual or... what?
    I'm only a perfectionist when I am not lazy.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ElliseLinette
    That's interesting... so one of the look-a-like will change themselves in such a way so that they are their dual or... what?
    Not quite. Everyone tends to relate to someone else as if they were their duals, people "expect" others to be their duals. A lot, or most, disappointments on people is precisely when they don't act as their duals.

    So, in look-alike as in other relationships, there is an unstated "pressure" for you to act as the other person's dual.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    Not quite. Everyone tends to relate to someone else as if they were their duals, people "expect" others to be their duals. A lot, or most, disappointments on people is precisely when they don't act as their duals.

    So, in look-alike as in other relationships, there is an unstated "pressure" for you to act as the other person's dual.
    Mmm... this is a growing problem for me, because I think this is definitely what is happening, if it hasn't happened already. Only I think it's mostly one sided... because I'm trying to mold myself, pretty much.
    I'm only a perfectionist when I am not lazy.
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    Interesting. I have a good friend who is my look-a-like. And my dad is also my look-a-like. I've always had a good relationship with my dad. We have moments of great connection and also times when it was clear that he didn't quite "get" me. But I think that my current friendship with my look-a-like feels very familiar to me because of the fact that my dad was the same personality and thus I know what to expect and I can sort of be in that mode when I'm with him. I would probably not recommend it as a romantic relationship but I think a friendship with your look-a-like can be great. It feels comfortable, supportive and fairly understanding (although not 100%).
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    my best friend is an INFj, my lookalike. I love her.

    When we're together for long periods of time, I find that I do tend to act in a caretaker role towards her, as an ESTj would. I find her very valuable because she gives me people advice and that works to calm me. I think we're both Ne subtype, and we have so much fun together doing artistic/musical things, travelling to unusual places, or nature-y things like hiking. One thing she also said that I thought was interesting was that her fiancee (likely ExTj, probably an ESTj) is a mixture of myself and her other close friend, who I think is an ISTj.

    For longer periods of time, there is some Fe/Fi conflict in that she will want me to do what will make me happy, but I want to do what makes the group happy. Very mundane, "what do you want to do, whatever you want to do!" kind of thing. Btw, I also have this situation with a friend who I believe to be ExTj. Although I feel uncomfortable when I don't know exactly how to help her when she's upset, I think we trust each other enough to know that we each mean the best for each other so we don't really get upset at these kind of misunderstandings.

    We don't see each other very often but it's one of my best relationships.

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    i tried to reply to this topic before and of course had something profound all written out, but my computer fritzed and shut down. so i will try again. but it will prolly not be profound lol.

    i was married to my lookalike (estp) for 15 years. the term co-worker is probably the best way to describe this relationship. we achieved a lot of material goals because we thought about things in a similar way and took similar actions toward our goals. i found him funny and entertaining. still do, as a matter of fact. but you might not like being married to your co-worker, right?

    there was a number of negatives. competition, inability to help one another with weaknesses, a lack of psychological balance, and a frustration with our own and the other person's polr. at first we appreciated one another's strengths (Ne, Se) and joined together on the Ti. this is how we achieved our life goals of getting through school, buying a house, having children, moving up the career laddar.

    competition & inability to help. for example, he admired my academic and presentation skills. i admired his street smarts and forcefulness. over time, though, we began to give one another advice which came from these strong areas. like he would take a class and be stuck and i would try to help him, and he couldn't work with my help (Ne). i would run into say a problem with a gamey staff member at work and he would advise me but i couldn't execute it (Se). so the help we would get from each other would be activities which the other person made look easy, but would be impossible for the receiver of the advice to implement. after awhile, appreciation for one another's strengths turned into resentment and jealousy of one another's achievements and the perceived ease with which we achieved our individual goals.

    inability to help & lack of balance & polr frustration. there was no one doing the emotional work in the relationship. there was a power struggle and an inability to express feelings and resolve issues. neither one of us could get the mood open enough (lack of Fe) to facilitate positive resolution. he couldn't relax me enough (Si) and i couldn't communicate well enough about timing and strategy (Ni). neither of us would give in on things, because when we did, the other person wouldn't recognize it as worthwhile. he'd get frustrated by my relational clumsiness (Fi) and i'd get frustrated by his inability to express feelings responsibly and by his put-downs (Fi). if i expressed feelings, he went in for the kill (Se). when he didn't express feelings, i'd get out the (NeTi) guns and go for the throat, too. i think we did this because we were angry that we could not get the help we needed from one another. and after a few years and multiple stressors, we didn't feel safe enough to take any emotional risks.

    in the face of extreme stress: multiple jobs, the demands of children under the age of 5, the politics of moving up the laddar at work, health issues - the relation couldn't withstand these challenges.

    i think this relation makes a great friend, but is terrible for an intimate partner. maybe it's different for introverts, because one person is T and the other person is F, so at least there is balance there, but i would think there would still be competition and an inability to give one another the help that is required in an intimate relationship.

    anyway pretty long post and maybe it won't be useful, but i hope it is to someone, cause i sure wouldn't want anybody to go through what i went through in that relationship. i guess writing it all out is sort of therapeutic, too. i'd be interested to hear what anybody thinks about this also?! :wink:

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

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    Quote Originally Posted by diamond8
    if i expressed feelings, he went in for the kill (Se).
    Uh, I have some suspicions of what you mean here, but can you give a hint in case I'm wrong?
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    Quote Originally Posted by diamond8
    if i expressed feelings, he went in for the kill (Se).
    Uh, I have some suspicions of what you mean here, but can you give a hint in case I'm wrong?
    lessee he would see it as me trying to garner sympathy or manipulate. he wouldn't perceive honesty. he'd tell me why i shouldn't feel that way at times also. he'd try to turn things around.

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

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    Quote Originally Posted by diamond8
    lessee he would see it as me trying to garner sympathy or manipulate. he wouldn't perceive honesty.
    Yes, I could very well see that.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    Quote Originally Posted by diamond8
    lessee he would see it as me trying to garner sympathy or manipulate. he wouldn't perceive honesty.
    Yes, I could very well see that.
    and?

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

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    Quote Originally Posted by diamond8
    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    Quote Originally Posted by diamond8
    lessee he would see it as me trying to garner sympathy or manipulate. he wouldn't perceive honesty.
    Yes, I could very well see that.
    and?
    Well, the ESTp is "wired" to the INFp who tends to get IP "ups and downs" as a way to get the ESTp to react; that is what raisonpure has described and that doesn't work with ESTjs for instance. In an ESTp-INFp relationship it works fine, but I suspect that in many aspects it works in ESTp-ENTp too, but if any type goes into discussing with an ESTp, I can see how he ("he" to keep it simple) would see it as some sort of sympathy-gaining, only one that he finds particularly devious and annoying. If you say "what are doing reaaaally pisses me off!!!!!!!" And he says "oh yeah?" and you "yeah!!!" this is at a more natural and to him, perhaps, even more "honest" level.

    If you go into talk of the sort of quietly saying "you know, I have been thinking and a lot of things in our relationship is not working and it I feel sad about it", the ESTp's reaction is "what is she talking about? Sad? But she says it so quietly and calmly? What is she trying to do? Play games with me? Is she expecting me to take this seriously?"

    Without , he doesn't take the talk seriously.

    For ENTp-ISFp is different, it's more, hmm, Ne-Si focused so without the "power-challenging" bit.

    PS: some people have indicated to me that they dislike the way I present -- well, then, this is a good place to say exactly where I am wrong, and how the ESTp-INFp duality works, and why the problem that diamond8 described happens.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    As for my own experiences, Kristiina helped me understand a few things, especially what happened during a short-but-intense relationship with an ENFj ages ago.

    It worked wonderfully in terms of intensive rhythm of activity, relative lack of concern for comfort, ambition, and thinking longer-term. Also, it helped, when we met, that she took the initiative to start conversation (on a train in France) - Fe EJ.

    The real problem was really what Kristiina explained about expecting "Ti answers". When doing things together, in a very Fi and also Ni victim way, I was concerned that she'd have more of a nice time than I (especially under the precise circumstances, which I won't explain in detail here). So when she asked, "well what do you want to do [insert time and situation here]?", I did have a good idea of what I wanted, but I thought I should say, "well I'm ok with this and that, so I'm fine with what you decide" which is precisely what annoyed her and saw as "wishy-washy", while I saw it as being considerate and attentive. If she had said clearly, "I have no idea, you decide" it would be no problem. Also, she did not say that she saw that as "wishy-washy" immediately, she let it accumulate until she exploded, leaving me totally bewildered.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    A general comment on this (to be made elsewhere, too).

    One flaw of Socionics is that, more than the types, it over-simplifies relationships.

    So, for instance, the ESTp-ENTp look-alike relationship is different from the ENTj-ENFj one. They will have different issues. For instance, I would expect the ESFp-ENFp look-alike relationship to work better at some levels, and not so good in others. And for different reasons.

    And this applies even more so to duality. What the ESTp-INFp pair expects from their duality is necessarily very different from what the ESTj-INFj pair expects from theirs.

    And so on and so forth.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    As for my own experiences, Kristiina helped me understand a few things, especially what happened during a short-but-intense relationship with an ENFj ages ago.

    It worked wonderfully in terms of intensive rhythm of activity, relative lack of concern for comfort, ambition, and thinking longer-term. Also, it helped, when we met, that she took the initiative to start conversation (on a train in France) - Fe EJ.

    The real problem was really what Kristiina explained about expecting "Ti answers". When doing things together, in a very Fi and also Ni victim way, I was concerned that she'd have more of a nice time than I (especially under the precise circumstances, which I won't explain in detail here). So when she asked, "well what do you want to do [insert time and situation here]?", I did have a good idea of what I wanted, but I thought I should say, "well I'm ok with this and that, so I'm fine with what you decide" which is precisely what annoyed her and saw as "wishy-washy", while I saw it as being considerate and attentive. If she had said clearly, "I have no idea, you decide" it would be no problem. Also, she did not say that she saw that as "wishy-washy" immediately, she let it accumulate until she exploded, leaving me totally bewildered.
    Wow, I can actually sort of relate to this. My friend is constantly complaining that I leave all the planning (or did leave all the planning) up to him. Usually he would ask me what I wanted to do, and I would be more comfortable brainstorming with him rather than tell him right out, so I would say "I dunno, whatever you want to do is fine". That really irritated him. So now everytime I suggest we "do something" he immediately launches into an offensive, saying "Well I don't know what we should do, why do I always have to figure it out?!" even when I was just wondering if he wanted to do anything at all. There are times when I feel like his advice is not really something I need to hear... I mean, he's giving me great advice I just feel like a need a little bit more than what he's giving me. Driving is a pretty good example, and I've called him out on it and made him explain, but basically he's teaching me how to drive and it's frusterating to me because I am not getting it right away (impatience). Well he just makes it look so easy and sometimes he makes me feel like he's saying "See how easy this is? What's wrong with you, why can't you do it like this?" He clarified that he was just trying to get me to relax because that's what my real problem is, but that's one way we don't understand eachother.
    I'm only a perfectionist when I am not lazy.
    The Humanitarian
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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    Quote Originally Posted by diamond8
    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    Quote Originally Posted by diamond8
    lessee he would see it as me trying to garner sympathy or manipulate. he wouldn't perceive honesty.
    Yes, I could very well see that.
    and?
    Well, the ESTp is "wired" to the INFp who tends to get IP "ups and downs" as a way to get the ESTp to react; that is what raisonpure has described and that doesn't work with ESTjs for instance. In an ESTp-INFp relationship it works fine, but I suspect that in many aspects it works in ESTp-ENTp too, but if any type goes into discussing with an ESTp, I can see how he ("he" to keep it simple) would see it as some sort of sympathy-gaining, only one that he finds particularly devious and annoying. If you say "what are doing reaaaally pisses me off!!!!!!!" And he says "oh yeah?" and you "yeah!!!" this is at a more natural and to him, perhaps, even more "honest" level.

    If you go into talk of the sort of quietly saying "you know, I have been thinking and a lot of things in our relationship is not working and it I feel sad about it", the ESTp's reaction is "what is she talking about? Sad? But she says it so quietly and calmly? What is she trying to do? Play games with me? Is she expecting me to take this seriously?"

    Without , he doesn't take the talk seriously.

    For ENTp-ISFp is different, it's more, hmm, Ne-Si focused so without the "power-challenging" bit.

    PS: some people have indicated to me that they dislike the way I present -- well, then, this is a good place to say exactly where I am wrong, and how the ESTp-INFp duality works, and why the problem that diamond8 described happens.
    ha, things brings to recollection the issue we had for his fishing hobby. he used to say, "you're so controlling you don't like it when i go fishing." i finally said, "fishing is fine. what i don't like is the fact that you take my van to go fishing, you bring it back dirty, you leave all your trash inside of it. when you get back, you sleep all day, so fishing isn't just a couple of hours, it's an entire day. you get up at the crack of dawn to leave for fishing, you make a lot of noise and wake me up, then i can't get back to sleep. SO IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH FISHING IT HAS TO DO WITH ALL THIS BULLSHIT."

    then he stopped doing all that stuff except for the sleeping, and lo, it was a little better. LOL

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

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    There was an ISTj woman I was friends with in high school. We got on amicably on a personal level, and could talk about the same stuff without confusing each other, but the problems arose in how each of us tended to say blunt things to one another. Whereas I was prone to making blunt criticisms about people's characters, she was prone to saying blunt things about what someone was saying or thinking. We both found the other rude in this regard, though I admit that our objections were hypocritical, as we both did (I still do and I'm sure she still does) the things we were objecting to. Role hits, I guess.

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    Quote Originally Posted by diamond8
    ha, things brings to recollection the issue we had for his fishing hobby. he used to say, "you're so controlling you don't like it when i go fishing." i finally said, "fishing is fine. what i don't like is the fact that you take my van to go fishing, you bring it back dirty, you leave all your trash inside of it. when you get back, you sleep all day, so fishing isn't just a couple of hours, it's an entire day. you get up at the crack of dawn to leave for fishing, you make a lot of noise and wake me up, then i can't get back to sleep. SO IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH FISHING IT HAS TO DO WITH ALL THIS BULLSHIT."

    then he stopped doing all that stuff except for the sleeping, and lo, it was a little better. LOL
    My biggest complaint about living with ENTps is that they make messes and refuse to clean them up, saying that it's illogical, and that I'm being illogical (and stupid) for caring. But it's not illogical. Small messes historically build up and grow into larger ones, which create sanitation issues, and not seeing the beginning of a large problem manifesting in a smaller one is short-sighted. Fucking idiot lazy brother. Not saying all ENTps are like this.

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    the thread is about lookalike relations in general, is it not? and examples of how different lookalike relations would illustrate this?

    the thread that runs through lookalike relations, then is, what? that you have clashes over your strong functions, but that your rhythm of life is a flow, that your polr is the same so you have sympathy for one another but at the same time the other person's polr is annoying in a way that someone else's polr would not be, that your creative function is the same so you click with this, that your hidden agenda is the same, so how the hell can you get it from the other peron who wants the same thing you do? that your dual seeking is unfulfilled being that it is in the deep subsconscious of the other peron?

    concrete examples are what supports or doesn't support the validity of the theory.

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

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    Quote Originally Posted by discojoe
    Quote Originally Posted by diamond8
    ha, things brings to recollection the issue we had for his fishing hobby. he used to say, "you're so controlling you don't like it when i go fishing." i finally said, "fishing is fine. what i don't like is the fact that you take my van to go fishing, you bring it back dirty, you leave all your trash inside of it. when you get back, you sleep all day, so fishing isn't just a couple of hours, it's an entire day. you get up at the crack of dawn to leave for fishing, you make a lot of noise and wake me up, then i can't get back to sleep. SO IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH FISHING IT HAS TO DO WITH ALL THIS BULLSHIT."

    then he stopped doing all that stuff except for the sleeping, and lo, it was a little better. LOL
    My biggest complaint about living with ENTps is that they make messes and refuse to clean them up, saying that it's illogical, and that I'm being illogical (and stupid) for caring. But it's not illogical. Small messes historically build up and grow into larger ones, which create sanitation issues, and not seeing the beginning of a large problem manifesting in a smaller one is short-sighted. Fucking idiot lazy brother. Not saying all ENTps are like this.
    lol, siblings. i'd say the same thing about me enfp brother.

    FWIW i'm a total neat freak!

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    They feel very positive in the early, "superficial" stages when it's about activities together and having more or less casual conversations. The common temperament and a lot of the functional ordering leads to understanding on many points, but as the relationship deepens it becomes clear that there is a fundamental difference in the deeper motivations and priorities.
    I can totally relate to the first part.

    I never got as far as the second though...

    My parents have a look a like relationship. It's oke, but nothing special I guess.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    Well, the ESTp is "wired" to the INFp who tends to get IP "ups and downs" as a way to get the ESTp to react; that is what raisonpure has described and that doesn't work with ESTjs for instance. In an ESTp-INFp relationship it works fine, but I suspect that in many aspects it works in ESTp-ENTp too, but if any type goes into discussing with an ESTp, I can see how he ("he" to keep it simple) would see it as some sort of sympathy-gaining, only one that he finds particularly devious and annoying. If you say "what are doing reaaaally pisses me off!!!!!!!" And he says "oh yeah?" and you "yeah!!!" this is at a more natural and to him, perhaps, even more "honest" level.

    If you go into talk of the sort of quietly saying "you know, I have been thinking and a lot of things in our relationship is not working and it I feel sad about it", the ESTp's reaction is "what is she talking about? Sad? But she says it so quietly and calmly? What is she trying to do? Play games with me? Is she expecting me to take this seriously?"

    Without , he doesn't take the talk seriously.

    For ENTp-ISFp is different, it's more, hmm, Ne-Si focused so without the "power-challenging" bit.

    PS: some people have indicated to me that they dislike the way I present -- well, then, this is a good place to say exactly where I am wrong, and how the ESTp-INFp duality works, and why the problem that diamond8 described happens.
    ISFp = not that much better. I wouldn't have conflicted so much with my ESTj teacher if it weren't for the way my mother would pressure me into going out of my usual way of conflict resolution whenever I inadvertently jeopardized her relations with him. When I caused a misunderstanding between them that prompted him to send her some passive-aggressive insults in the middle of the night, she forced me to delay my reaction until the next day because she needed to think of a plan for dealing with him. I was going to reply with an honest opinion of his depravity, but she wouldn't allow me to ruin things for her further with criticism -- which she said I was in no position to give -- and insisted that I abide by her plans for ensuring a happy ending. I personally didn't care about resolving the conflict, rolled my eyes at her and told her that she was overreacting as she cried [for the rest of the afternoon]. I hated how she'd force me withhold the truth and deliver a pretty lies for her, but she wouldn't let me ignore her crying. After sobbing in her room for a while, she came out and started guilt-tripped me amidst tears by accusing me of "betraying" her as a 6 year old child, saying that I'd always been "evil" and "cunning", out to take revenge on her, and was making her life miserable on purpose I couldn't ignore her anymore and started snapping back at her: "Don't make me laugh -- do you seriously believe that a six year old is capable of scheming the imprisonment of her mother? You have yourself to blame for hitting me, I only reported the truth. You're making me out to be more cunning than I can ever be, really "

    The argument escalated into a shouting match which lasted for 10-20 minutes, and at the end of it, it was clear that my only option was to phone my teacher, refrain from criticizing him, and sweet-talk him into forgiveness against my will -- "or else" I'd have to put up with her crying, verbal attacks and whatnot for the entire day.

    Our relation is worse than that of supervision or even comparative at close distance -- I get along fabulously and hardly ever conflict with my father (INTp) while I frequently feel like I'm walking on egg-shells with my mother. We take turns criticizing each other on the same things, and I have no respect or sympathy for her whatsoever. Ever since I was a child, I've despised her fake smile and the way she'd keep on smiling at someone she secretly despises or even fabricate stories just to keep things smooth on the surface. She thinks I'm Evil incarnate and vice versa. Can't and don't care to understand most of what she says -- which hardly ever registers in my mind -- so a typical conversation goes like this:

    Mother: BLAAAAAAAAH
    Me: Stop BLABLA-ing to yourself, will you? No one's listening.
    Mother: I'm talking to you!
    Me: Well, I can't hear you, so you might as well save your breath for later.
    Mother: How can you not hear me!? *throws tantrum*
    Me: Why are you getting yourself so worked up over nothing?
    Mother: Why are YOU angry?
    Me: Am not. I am as calm as ever.
    Mother: Then what's with your [condescending] expression? (referring to my "you're so full of shit" look, which consists of looking down on her and sneering at her as she gets herself more and more worked up)
    Me: What's wrong with it? You're a little too sensitive, don't you think?
    *Mother starts exploding*
    Me: This is a waste of time. *walks away*

    Mother: What are these post-its for? They're scary.
    Me: Why do you care?
    Mother: Answer my question. Who are you writing these post-its to?
    Me: I'm not writing post-its to anyone. Why would you think that?
    Mother: Just tell me what you're using them for!
    Me: Translations. Again, why should it matter to you? You're making a mountain out of a molehill
    Mother: Why do you write translations on post-its?
    Me: It's not like there's a rule which states that translations must be written on paper. Post-its were more convenient for the situation.
    Mother: Answer me properly!
    Me: Why do people write calculations on paper? Why do people do their homework on the computer, for that matter?
    Mother: Stop answering my questions with questions!
    Me: Well, that's the way I answer questions, so deal with it.
    Mother: SHUT UP!!!
    Me: You're the one who started the whole conversation, and now you tell me to shut up? Fine, suits my purpose anyway.

    That's how I naturally argue when I have control over myself. So I'm more likely to be the one going "Oh yeah?" because "what you are doing reeeeeally pisses me off!" and "yeah!!!" are reeeeeally pathetic sounding to me. IME, I'm most likely to go "HOW COULD YOU DO THIS? YOU"RE NOT HUMAN!"
    “I think, therefore I'll think" - Ayn Rand (ESTp, UR GUARDIAN ANGEL)

  26. #26
    eunice's Avatar
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    @ raisonpure: your mum was making a mountain out of a molehill.

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    le petit prince raisonpure's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eunice
    @ raisonpure: your mum was making a mountain out of a molehill.
    Thanks for quoting me in your signature, by the way. I feel so special.

    Oh and, one reason ESTp-INFp works is because the ones I've interacted with are unusually respectful of me, addressing me as "ma'am" or "big sister" to the point that it's ingratiating. Surprisingly docile, too:

    <ESTp makes someone else's bike fall down by climbing into classroom through the window>
    ESTp: Oops.
    Me: YOU...!!!
    ESTp: Sorry.

    Me: Have some french fries.
    ESTp: Thank you, Miss. You are the best
    Me: That's gross. Oh and, wrong address.
    ESTp: Yes, big sister.
    “I think, therefore I'll think" - Ayn Rand (ESTp, UR GUARDIAN ANGEL)

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    @Raisonpure

    I can see how my own arguments would have decended into , but your's went into a different direction.
    INTP/ILI(Ni) /5w4

    "When my time comes, forget the wrong that I've done.
    Help me leave behind some reasons to be missed."

  29. #29
    Creepy-

    Default Look-Alike/Business Relations

    What are your experiences w your look-alike?

    I usually get along very well w ILIs. My first boyfriend in high school was an ILI, and we're still great friends - we do come at things from different angles, but not in a way that causes friction. Usually, we crack each other up, and we also tend to agree on a lot of things [not that that's necessarily relevant to socionics]. From my own experience, I would say look-alike is probably better for friendship than dating. Is it different, maybe, for F vs. T types? [you'll have to excuse the MB-esque terminology; I'm not sure how else to phrase it]. Anyway, I'm curious about others' experiences/opinions....

    -

    For quick reference:
    Quote Originally Posted by socionics.com
    These are relations between equal partners which can be called acquaintances rather than friends. There are no visual obstacles in the development of these relations, partners can talk easily almost about anything. Look-a-like partners do not feel any danger from the other partner. The strong sides of the partners are different in the such a way that almost any conversations between them always fall into the area of the confidence of only one of the partners. Look-a-like partners also have similar problems which makes them feel rather sympathetic towards each other instead of being critical of each other's vulnerabilities.

    Understanding between partners is usually good. Collaboration between them may be very fruitful especially if partners feel a mutual attraction. When partners loose their feeling of sympathy for each other through anger or any other reason, they can apply pressure to their partner's vulnerabilities. This can sometimes be really unexpected and unpleasant for both partners.

    Arguments in Look-a-like relations are not common practice. The partners usually try to help each other, or at least feel when their partner requires some form of assistance. However, in many cases the help is not effective enough because partners have similar problems. Look-a-like relations have an average degree of comfort. Partners do not have anything against each other but also nothing for which to struggle. These relations can normally bring a feeling of satisfaction from interaction with an equal and not boring partner.
    Quote Originally Posted by wiki
    Business relations are similar to identity and kindred in that partners have a large number of functions in common — in this case, all the even-numbered ones. This provides a certain commonality of expression and similarity of communication style. Business partners rarely have serious problems understanding each other. However, their purposes — defined primarily through the leading function — are radically different, even if their means are often similar. Business partners rarely need much time to get to know each other and find common ground (or define their differences). The psychological distance is naturally large enough that partners do not generally seek to know each other deeply. Rather, they are content to interact with the other on a relatively superficial basis.
    Last edited by female; 01-18-2009 at 04:55 AM.

  30. #30
    Hot Message FDG's Avatar
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    I'm fine with them when we're on par, not find we they're above me. That's for males.

    ENFj girls, for a misteryous reason, are often attracted to me.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    meatburger's Avatar
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    I typically get on very well with ESFp girls, but ESFp guys not so much.
    ENFp (Unsure of Subtype)

    "And the day came when the risk it took to remain closed in a bud became more painful than the risk it took to blossom." - Anaïs Nin

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    I get along well with them, but I've never dated one. I think we'd burn each other out energy-wise. I have one friend with mega-strong Se (seriously, it's like a force-field), and I can see the conflicting Ne/Se most with her. If she's not the leader, she gets rather antagonistic when the group doesn't go her way. Overall, I enjoy their company, but we definitely have different ways of doing things. In a friendship aspect, most of the time it's not an issue because I'm open to just about any suggestion of what to do on a given evening. In a relationship, though, the Se would drive me nuts.
    IEE

  33. #33
    Hot Message FDG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by meatburger View Post
    I typically get on very well with ESFp girls, but ESFp guys not so much.
    Ahah, since it's the same way for me, perhaps it's an issue of competition.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    Ahah, since it's the same way for me, perhaps it's an issue of competition.
    yeah i wouldn't be suprised at all. The ESFp guys i know would be hard for me to compete with though really, they are pretty confident haha. Its true though our spheres of influence do overlap a lot.

    I think the ESFp girls ive met seem to focus on their Se differently. They focus on Fi and when they use their Se its to organise and do things. ESFp guys i feel the Se a lot more, and i also feel them using it on me. I tend to think "i wont have a bar of that thank you" lol. Ive actually noticed the same with ISFj guys and girls too. I suppose that Se is quite masculine, so the guys tend to enjoy using it.
    ENFp (Unsure of Subtype)

    "And the day came when the risk it took to remain closed in a bud became more painful than the risk it took to blossom." - Anaïs Nin

  35. #35
    redbaron's Avatar
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    I've been very good friends with an SEI. My dad is also my lookalike, as is my uncle, my son, my father-in-law and I dated one also. So let's see...

    I find that generally speaking, there's terrific understanding. It feels quite comfortable. No arguments or quarreling. I love being with SEIs--they're so pleasant and there's plenty to talk about, they're extremely sweet. but I don't think it would be a great relation for marriage. I think (and I'm pretty sure I feel this way about comparatives as well, which for me would be ILIs) I would get too frustrated with the Ip temperament. I'm afraid nothing would get done and everything would be up to me. My one great fear is having to make all the decisions!

    "equal and not boring" is a good phrase to describe it. The symmetric nature of the relation is evident. There is mutual respect and it would be a great teaching relation--in face, my SEI friend taught me several things (no, not that! get your minds out of the gutter). uh, anyway....lookalikes are great!
    IEI-Fe 4w3

  36. #36
    Creepy-

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    Ahah, since it's the same way for me, perhaps it's an issue of competition.
    Quote Originally Posted by meatburger View Post
    yeah i wouldn't be suprised at all. The ESFp guys i know would be hard for me to compete with though really, they are pretty confident haha. Its true though our spheres of influence do overlap a lot.

    I think the ESFp girls ive met seem to focus on their Se differently. They focus on Fi and when they use their Se its to organise and do things. ESFp guys i feel the Se a lot more, and i also feel them using it on me. I tend to think "i wont have a bar of that thank you" lol. Ive actually noticed the same with ISFj guys and girls too. I suppose that Se is quite masculine, so the guys tend to enjoy using it.
    So w the girls you don't sense that same kind of competition, or is it just to a lesser degree?

    I only know of two ILI's whose types I'm sure of - one is a guy, and he's one of my best friends, and the other is a girl I work with. I wouldn't say we're competitive, but then again we've never worked on any major projects together or anything. We're probably both too laid-back to really clash in a big way, though.

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    I had a long-term ESFp ex. It was a good relationship and we spent almost all of our time together for the most part.

    The Se only showed up in that he was more action oriented, as far as wanting to up and take trips and things. He was less Se than other ESFps I've known though.

    The biggest difference was that he thought theory was useless and would get really annoyed when I'd talk about it too much.

    He usually took control of social situations (which back then was OK as I was shy). But now, I'm not sure that'd work for me anymore, since I'm much more outgoing.

    Also, he picked his friends less carefully and thought I was kind of snobby for being more careful who I hung out w/. I think it's because ENFps are more influenced by their social circle, where as he liked to entertain a group w/ silly antics, but his world view wouldn't be influenced by what his friends said/though the way it would for me.

    all in all though we didn't have much conflict, except for occasionally Fi-focused clarifications that were easy to fix. Still, I think ISTp is better for ENFps though.
    Hi! I'm an ENFP. :-)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hostage_Child View Post
    One of my long term friends was SLI, I think. We cracked each other up often but kind lived in different worlds. I like them but I prefer comparatives to be honest since I feel we have more in common.
    yeah probably right that comparatives have more in common. I don't know if I prefer them though. It's really a toss-up for me.
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    Quote Originally Posted by redbaron View Post
    yeah probably right that comparatives have more in common...
    It depends on subtype also.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by songofsappho View Post
    Really?

    I have less experience w SEIs [my comparative] than ILIs [my look-alike], but in general I get on better w ILIs. Inadvertently w SEIs, we hit each others' PoLRs and have trouble communicating [in fact this is one area where socionics has been helpful, as I used to think something was wrong w one or both of us when that happened].

    But maybe it is something to do w subtypes as well, though.
    our comparative and lookalike are switched. My lookalike is SEI and my comparative is ILI. I enjoy the Fe with SEIs (talking, mainly, music, films) and with the one ILI I'm thinking of, we both fiddled with Si role (gardening, cooking, etc). So the friendships were fun in different ways.
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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