View Poll Results: what is Barack Obama's type?

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  • ILE (ENTp)

    0 0%
  • SEI (ISFp)

    0 0%
  • ESE (ESFj)

    0 0%
  • LII (INTj)

    1 4.76%
  • SLE (ESTp)

    0 0%
  • IEI (INFp)

    3 14.29%
  • EIE (ENFj)

    4 19.05%
  • LSI (ISTj)

    0 0%
  • SEE (ESFp)

    1 4.76%
  • ILI (INTp)

    0 0%
  • LIE (ENTj)

    2 9.52%
  • ESI (ISFj)

    7 33.33%
  • IEE (ENFp)

    2 9.52%
  • SLI (ISTp)

    0 0%
  • LSE (ESTj)

    0 0%
  • EII (INFj)

    2 9.52%
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Thread: Barack Obama

  1. #1
    jughead's Avatar
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    Default Barack Obama

    I'll agree that Obama seems rather IJ and mad predictable. I mean EII vs IEI are quasi-identical so its not hard to get them mixed up. He DOES show aristocratic Fi though in his bullshit gleaming vision of the past but how is this much different from Reagan's shining city on a hill? and I'm always for aristocratic Ti/Se but he never expresses it, so it's either repressed for his political message like any good politician but it seems like it would leak out some if he really was IEI. He does seem boring and stable so it points to IJ. Obamas speeches move lame old people with revisionistic glorious versions of the past to tears, and people having tears of bush gone and the first black president.
    It seems like everyone WANTED him to be IEI but I'm not sure thats possible and "what you see is what you get". His books are dry and boring and a bunch of bullshit, it reads exactly like his campaign website.





    Last edited by silke; 03-19-2015 at 10:40 PM. Reason: added interviews

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    Nothing in the cage of my ribcage
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    Well Obama is sometimes criticized for flip-flopping and trying to appease to everyone. That doesn't seem very predictable to me. It's even incompatible with the IJness, because apparently they only stick to one issue before moving onto the next one. Flip-flopping is the height of Irrationality, and it would drive any J types crazy.

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    It amazed me when I listened to some interviews with Barack Obama with how alike he and myself spoke. He speaks every word and sentence with the exact tone, pace and pitch as I myself do. Easily I could predict his next word or two and the tones they would take.
    So what am I?
    I am either a quite extroverted EII or a quite introverted IEE. For years I have thought that I am EII but lately have realized that the IEE descriptions may fit me a little better now that I am maturing and getting over some shyness.
    Last edited by Nonsense; 06-05-2010 at 08:34 AM.

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    Breaking stereotypes Suz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    Si= lot's of sex, don't you remember my duals flirting and gropping and talking about sexual stuff, sexing?

    For the same picture, I see president Bush (both the Bush's) as being ESTp; because they value honesty and not cheating, and not lying-big ticket ESTp value. They just don't say they value it, they actually do it. ESTj's may value honesty but guarantee you, I see them fudging very easily. They don't want to admit it because they want to look good and well and work towards certain standards and ideals they have about themselves, but they are "human" unlike ESTp's

    Arnold on cheating and groping....

    British Press Reports Schwarzenegger’s Groping And Affair With Former Little House on the Prairie Actress; When Will U.S. Media Do So?

    I can seal the deal by guaranteeing you that on my mother's life, I will NEVER hear Presidents Bush touch another woman except for their wives.
    I think that Se-valuers are definitely capable of cheating, they just do it for a different motive. Si-egos will cheat to experience physical pleasure. Se-ego could cheat to have influence or to show their power or how manly they are.

    The example of the Bush men not cheating could rather be related to their religious values, which wouldn't be type related. Perhaps what IS type related is, they know if they had affairs their supporters would HEAVILY disapprove, and they didn't want to lose power over such a thing. That would be Se-valuing because they value power over pleasure (unlike Bill Clinton).
    Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx

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    jughead's Avatar
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    "Well Obama is sometimes criticized for flip-flopping and trying to appease to everyone. That doesn't seem very predictable to me. It's even incompatible with the IJness, because apparently they only stick to one issue before moving onto the next one. Flip-flopping is the height of Irrationality, and it would drive any J types crazy. "

    Fine, fine then Obama is IEI, lesser chance IEE. He's a good politician but no SEE like Johnson. Obama plays the obvious Ni card every time and gleans it over with some campaign writing bs.

    John Kerry is more IEE right?

    Most of the books by these people still have campaign messages attached and are at least partially ghost written and edited. They are not personal journals Marista.

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    Blaze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Singularity View Post
    Obama is too smooth to be an EII... and EIIs are not exactly the smoothest of types. Obama knows exactly what to say and how to act to get a certain kind of emotional reaction out of his audience. How is that not Fe? When obama got elected and when he gave his speech it moved some people to tears (lol). Again, how is that not Fe?

    i have to say i see it this way, too. obama comes across as introverted, ethical, and dynamic. he is also poised, which might speak towards IEE, but then he seems introverted, letting out the possibility of IEE. he does not seem to be EII....they are more sharp and their rationality and static-ness comes out quickly.

    michelle seems static, but i don't get a sense of whether she is introverted or extraverted.

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

  7. #7
    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Singularity View Post
    Well Obama is sometimes criticized for flip-flopping and trying to appease to everyone.
    Actually I have noticed that IEIs are exactly opposite of this; they can be indecisive in taking action on something, but they tend to be even dogmatically rigid in their beliefs of good and bad, right and wrong.

    That doesn't seem very predictable to me.
    Really? It does to me.

    It's even incompatible with the IJness, because apparently they only stick to one issue before moving onto the next one. Flip-flopping is the height of Irrationality, and it would drive any J types crazy.
    No, it's the height of Se PoLR.

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    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    The height of Se PoLR may seem, in Obama's case, to be flip-flopping and not focusing but I believe that Ti without an efficient use of Te can also look choppy because if you create many systems to address a concern and can't combine and efficientize your systems then you can look all over the place, like you are not concentrating on one system at a time; Se polr manifests in unorganized, consumed, and distraction with organization of a speach, but only when the PoLR is extremely influenced or stressed by external sources. You will see, here, from my own post, that I am fine and no hint of PoLR...but there was a hint before when I thought that another member was another type (that's when I make a post and delete it in a repetitive pattern). That's when Ti speaks in choppiness saying "we have tried this, we will try that, let's do this and let's do it this way and that way" (Ti primary's can be very distracted spending 5 minutes on this system and jumping to emphasize the next system all the while not taking care of any one thing with good method and throughness.

  9. #9
    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Right, Ne PoLRs go changing their mind left and right. People who refuse to change their mind make GREAT populists (which, don't fucking kid yourself, Obama is) in a country as diverse and, in and of itself, indecisive as the United States, where popular opinion is grossly divided and elections are won typically on the weight of just a few percent.

    But then, they value Fe so I suppose they want to make everyone happy.

  10. #10
    jughead's Avatar
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    Gilly you are making the most sense but I don't neccesarily think you are right.
    Let's place Obama in Tom from The boondock's shoe's. Could Obama slap a bitch?
    Also again do you what do you think of the comparison between Obamas rhetoric and Reagans about the glorious past and vision of America? You chop one up to aristocratic Fi and the other to Ni I suppose but its hard to tell whats BS campaign propaganda, (and I think both are, but reagans was more true to form by not mentioning the bullshit that America still was in slavery and religious bigotry of its own, instead of Obama insisting theirs some time of mister rogers shit going on that makes america great). What a steaming pile of dogshit that people eat up on Obamas rhetoric...dick riding to reference the racist show that is boondocks. I don't want to say what realm of typing this thread is starting to reach at, but we don't have that many heavy hitters in this one and are you sure you don't want to put maritsa on ignore, because she just seems to piss you off and offer only limited amusement.
    Last edited by jughead; 06-05-2010 at 07:09 AM.

  11. #11
    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Only if it was clearly socially acceptable, and he would do it very sternly and not in a violent manner, probably pointing his finger. Maybe sort of like Wayne Brady (ESE) from that episode of Chapelle's Show, only not so dramatic, more dismissive.

    Imagine typical EII anger vs IEI anger: moralizing, disappointment and a sense of implicit superiority vs. vitriolic, angsty lashing-out, haughtily attempting to establish or maintain a position. What about LSI anger? Pent up rage and frustration, putting people in their place directly and without hesitance once boundaries have been crossed, confident in their positions and knowing well what must be done to maintain them. Which would Obama be inclined to?

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    Obama also purports to read all of lincolns work and model to him and the typing on lincoln in order of rank are LII , EII and ILI

  13. #13
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    Like professor x on x-men giving sabretooth a bitch slap. Your IEI anger description sounds like me , and I feel like its generally frowned upon by the people i know like im somehow crazy or "dramatic emo" or some shit and that bullshit combo makes me to to slit wrists slash murder them and intesify it but its like theres no place for it among the blind and dumb. I think all the more reason I DON't act on it ( your description not mine) however at all justified is that bizarre fucked up shit I get from Ne/si types or non betas.
    Side note fuck Fe polrs aka ILI am living with for the sake of my mental health, cheap ego boosting shot, but fuck I need to live with some SLE's and LSI and i will use socionics to solve my problems that can be solved.

    Editrobably cuz betas will ignore me or move away if they dont know me personally, seeing it as something somewhat normal

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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jughead View Post
    Gilly you are making the most sense but I don't neccesarily think you are right.
    I always make the most sense.

    Also again do you what do you think of the comparison between Obamas rhetoric and Reagans about the glorious past and vision of America? You chop one up to aristocratic Fi and the other to Ni I suppose but its hard to tell whats BS campaign propaganda, (and I think both are, but reagans was more true to form by not mentioning the bullshit that America still was in slavery and religious bigotry of its own, instead of Obama insisting theirs some time of mister rogers shit going on that makes america great).
    American populist propaganda is fairly generic, even when it pops up on opposite sides of quadras and political parties. That aside, Reagan spent billions on national defense posturing, insanely far-fetched, grandiose military ploys (which was likely a cover up for funding the CIA or some shit), and sabotaging the economy of an opposing country, whereas Obama wants to spend money making everyone safe and comfy with healthcare while ignoring shit like the oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico until it's too late, trying to cradle the fall of the economic crisis, and totally going back on, and hence ignoring, the commitments he made with regards to the War in Iraq. Classic Beta tactics of hardlining against ideological enemies using bravado and attrition, with a hint of grandiosity, as opposed to a Delta's attempt to ignore things that don't directly jeopardize the interests of the majority of the general public (until they realize that the ideal solution of the government's children, big corporations, make a mess without knowing how to clean it up) and dress shit up, masking the fact that a bunch of shit is going down because of this country's inability to make real changes due to bureaucratic handcuffs worn in the form of regulating a nation that is just too fucking big with too much money to be controlled easily. The bigger a consensus becomes by "necessity" of maintaining obsolete boundaries, the greater the scale of compromise...but we won't go there.

    What a steaming pile of dogshit that people eat up on Obamas rhetoric...dick riding to reference the racist show that is boondocks. I don't want to say what realm of typing this thread is starting to reach at, but we don't have that many heavy hitters in this one and are you sure you don't want to put maritsa on ignore, because she just seems to piss you off and offer only limited amusement.
    I need to vent on someone or else it will come out in real life, where there are consequences for being a prick to people who deserve it. I have to do the right thing when and where I can.

  16. #16
    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jughead View Post
    Obama also purports to read all of lincolns work and model to him and the typing on lincoln in order of rank are LII , EII and ILI
    Lincoln was EII.

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    thats why real life sucks, try some exercise.
    and jacking off that can be a mild 2 for 1
    edit;that was dum

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    ENFP

    this time you are correct
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    neverthesame's Avatar
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    Barack Obama is IEE, definitely.

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    Yes I have changed my mind watching him more and more it popped into my head IEE Fi. His lack of dynamic anger and emotion is unlike both IEI and EII. His speeches are lame ass Fe
    When I viewed him again it became apparent and his expressions are Fi>Fe and body movements which are kinda stilted and awkward zoomed straight to my intuitive picture of IEE.

    Edit: more fi over fe, he is a negotiator not an arguer, his fe speeches are speeches and meant to support his agenda of negotiation, he never incite people or stirs them up like IEI or EIE would, contrast to strrrng and gilly of course.
    Last edited by jughead; 06-19-2010 at 09:50 PM.

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    xerx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    Reagan
    He was also the most protectionist president in American history in spite of his free trade rhetoric.
    It was in the reign of George III that the aforesaid personages lived and quarrelled; good or bad, handsome or ugly, rich or poor, they are all equal now.

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    Why not LII? I've seen an LII or two who have his temperament, and he talked about the importance of offering ideas during his administration.

    If I didn't know better, I'd say he was an LII-LSE....

    Quote Originally Posted by jughead
    Edit: more fi over fe, he is a negotiator not an arguer, his fe speeches are speeches and meant to support his agenda of negotiation, he never incite people or stirs them up like IEI or EIE would, contrast to strrrng and gilly of course.
    My mom remarked that the energy he created during the 2008 campaign was reminiscent of Adolf Hitler.

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    Gilly is right - Obama is EII. ENFp is a terrible guess... there's nothing extraverted about him. We have a few mistyped INFjs as ENFp on here, too.
    INTp

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    If he's eii, then how is his the mirror, iee, such a terrible guess?

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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    It's not a horrible guess, but IMO it demonstrates less than admirable observation of Obama's general disposition.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    I'm actually not ruling out ESI entirely, having heard the suggestion by Ashton. He does have a kind of solidity and physical composure that I would not expect from an EII.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

  27. #27
    wants to be a writer. silverchris9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    I'm actually not ruling out ESI entirely, having heard the suggestion by Ashton. He does have a kind of solidity and physical composure that I would not expect from an EII.
    No. Beta NF makes more sense than ESI. I think ESI is a horrible typing for Obama. He is clearly not an Se-ego. He clearly uses compensatory tactics based in emotion, rather than volitional pressure, to get what he wants. I'm still not sold on him not being an Fe ego, personally, and a type with weak Ne and weak Ni.. all that Ne bs he has to do would be, to my mind, virtually impossible for an ESI. (Notice Bush, who I believe is LSI, but who is certainly not an Ne valuer, epically failing at Ne in... well... everything, while Obama succeeds royally in the "consider every viewpoint" thing, or at least a successful counterfeit thereof.) Physical solidity or no (and I actually don't see that much physical solidity, but perhaps that's due to my preconceived typing notion), Ne-polr doesn't make sense for Obama. Personally, I think Ne over Ni is a better argument for Obama than Fi over Fe, if one insists upon typing him delta NF (I still haven't given up on Beta NF, although I'm considering both now).
    Not a rule, just a trend.

    IEI. Probably Fe subtype. Pretty sure I'm E4, sexual instinctual type, fairly confident that I'm a 3 wing now, so: IEI-Fe E4w3 sx/so. Considering 3w4 now, but pretty sure that 4 fits the best.

    Yes 'a ma'am that's pretty music...

    I am grateful for the mystery of the soul, because without it, there could be no contemplation, except of the mysteries of divinity, which are far more dangerous to get wrong.

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    Quote Originally Posted by silverchris9 View Post
    No. Beta NF makes more sense than ESI. I think ESI is a horrible typing for Obama. He is clearly not an Se-ego. He clearly uses compensatory tactics based in emotion, rather than volitional pressure, to get what he wants. I'm still not sold on him not being an Fe ego, personally, and a type with weak Ne and weak Ni.. all that Ne bs he has to do would be, to my mind, virtually impossible for an ESI. (Notice Bush, who I believe is LSI, but who is certainly not an Ne valuer, epically failing at Ne in... well... everything, while Obama succeeds royally in the "consider every viewpoint" thing, or at least a successful counterfeit thereof.) Physical solidity or no (and I actually don't see that much physical solidity, but perhaps that's due to my preconceived typing notion), Ne-polr doesn't make sense for Obama. Personally, I think Ne over Ni is a better argument for Obama than Fi over Fe, if one insists upon typing him delta NF (I still haven't given up on Beta NF, although I'm considering both now).
    "Consider every viewpoint" isn't so much dependent on Ne as it's stereotypically said to be. That's something forms of thinking opened my eyes to, but by no means is it only theory without observations - when you look at ILEs and SLEs, ESIs and EIIs, it's more than a little obvious that equaling Ne to different perspectives only leads to mistyping. It works well enough in case of IEEs and LIIs, which is probably why the association persists, but not so for other types. So I'd think it's a poor argument against Ne-PoLR in general. Not that I have an opinion on Obama's type.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Singularity View Post
    Name me a Fi type that tries to get people to start moving and start a rally like Obama did in his campaigns. Name me a Fi type that tries to get people to get pumped up about something. Name me a Fi type that likes to give people "motivational speeches" like having "hope" and bringing "change".

    Obama is no Fi, he is totally Fe. I think he's Beta NF and I think he's IEI. He doesn't seem cynical enough to be EIE... he's too positive and optimistic.
    I agree with thehotelambush that this is not the "real" Obama. That is indeed what the American People expect from their Presidents-Entertainers, but he doesn't exhibit this on a regular basis now that he's in office.

    Quote Originally Posted by jughead View Post
    Yes I have changed my mind watching him more and more it popped into my head IEE Fi. His lack of dynamic anger and emotion is unlike both IEI and EII. His speeches are lame ass Fe
    When I viewed him again it became apparent and his expressions are Fi>Fe and body movements which are kinda stilted and awkward zoomed straight to my intuitive picture of IEE.

    Edit: more fi over fe, he is a negotiator not an arguer, his fe speeches are speeches and meant to support his agenda of negotiation, he never incite people or stirs them up like IEI or EIE would, contrast to strrrng and gilly of course.
    I agree.


    For many of the reasons brought up here and for his long-winded, matter-of-fact speaking style in debates, I originally typed him as LIE. I saw an emotional movement centered on Obama, but I didn't see Obama generating that emotion personally. Well stated above: "...his lack of dynamic anger and emotion." Then I read his book, "The Audacity of Hope." There was so much reflection, uncertainty, and humanity in it that I changed my typing to IEI. However, thehotelambush brings up some good points. I was impressed from reading Obama's book of his ability to weigh different viewpoints and see value in all of them without taking sides. I was impressed by his awareness of science, and still am (contrast that to some of the preceding presidents). His role model is Lincoln (EII), who I think Obama quite successfully moulds his strategy after. On many issues Obama seems to be "too passive," despite the fact that he clearly understands the issues. Lincoln kept his personal opinion on slavery private and chose instead to focus on preserving the Union. This seems to be Obama's style, too. I know what his science advisors must be telling him about climate change and our energy future, and yet he is very careful about his public comments on the subject because he doesn't want to say things that people will disagree with. In other words, he is very focused on preserving peace and pushing agendas through gently than with making all the facts and his personal views public.

    This comes through in his book, where he suggests that he has become a Christian as a result of some hazily-worded spiritual experience, whereas his writing and thinking displays a clear agnostic thought pattern. He is obviously aware that Americans want a Christian president.

    In short, I support a EII or IEE typing of him. I might favor EII over IEE due to his degree of sensitivity to public opinion and mood. With his degree of well-informedness, he could be much more active in educating people than he currently is, and yet he prefers to work off in the sidelines most of the time, entering the scene only at strategic moments.
    It is easier for the eye of a camel to pass through a rich man than for a needle to enter the kingdom of heaven.

  30. #30
    Contrarian Traditionalist Krig the Viking's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick View Post
    In short, I support a EII or IEE typing of him. I might favor EII over IEE due to his degree of sensitivity to public opinion and mood. With his degree of well-informedness, he could be much more active in educating people than he currently is, and yet he prefers to work off in the sidelines most of the time, entering the scene only at strategic moments.
    Hmm. If he is indeed EII, that would help explain why people constantly compare him to Jimmy Carter.

    I was pretty firmly in the "IEI" camp, but you've made some good arguments, Rick. However, since I find Obama almost entirely uninteresting, it may be a while before I do any further research on the matter.
    Quaero Veritas.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick View Post
    I agree with thehotelambush that this is not the "real" Obama. That is indeed what the American People expect from their Presidents-Entertainers, but he doesn't exhibit this on a regular basis now that he's in office.
    Type him as LSI and look at how he displays Fe dual seeking and do me a favor, read from many viewpoints not just one...for example, if you see the first sign of Ni, don't jump at it because it might be something momentarily displayed in someone...that's my lesson in typing for you.

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    not the worst suggestion i've ever heard.

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    I can't escape Obama being Fi-ISFj, even though I would love to hurl him over into Delta Quadra or elsewhere.

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    what type do you see nixon as?

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    Quote Originally Posted by jughead View Post
    what type do you see nixon as?
    Ti-ESTp.

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    He's an IEI. I'm certain of it.

    The reason why became clear to me when I considered the dual-type of Dracula in Castlevania: Curse of Darkness.



    What we see here at first looks like racism. Dracula was hated by the humans because he's a vampire. However, Dracula bears no real fear of humans and as such, does not hate them for sake of their being human. He wants to participate in their communities, in fact. No, Dracula's real beef with humanity is that he has been ostracized from them. Feeling little hope of reconciliation, Dracula alternates between oppressing humans and destroying them.

    The EM type characterizes how one sees life. The IM type, in turn, characterizes the ideal response to the essential quality that the dominant EM function suggests pervades the world. Dominant IEI-LSIs are ever faced with questions of fitting in, finding their place. To understand why they have so much difficulty, consider the weight of Te-Ne's leading into Ni-Ti.

    Vulnerable Te looms overhead as this supreme, ineffable force that is itself shaped by imagination. The "idea that produces wealth" is what we call the initiative to entrepreneurship, which IEI argues should neither be shaped nor controlled. This Te-Ne "god force" wields Ni-Ti dispassionately, shaping the situation which in turn shapes history. Fluxes in entrepreneurship shape all.

    Now imagine you had an idea that you could make money by possessing people. Granted its not a very pleasant idea, but still. We call this idea "indentured servitude" or slavery. The possession of the person shapes the life of the person, which shapes the situation, which shapes the flow of events in terms of attempts to transform it. Now the question arises, "would you choose to associate yourself with a person who is enslaved, or was enslaved?" In Obama's mind, Black Americans are still second class citizens because they had once been enslaved. He expects prejudice on this basis from whites, particularly with respect to their choices of company. There exists a tension between the two groups because of this, that self-perpetuates. Obama acts to reduce this tension.

    Under his presidency, we have seen the entire country become essentially enslaved by entrepreneurial reluctance. People are losing control of their own destinies as companies refuse to hire beyond their calculated needs for their markets. People have fewer options for economic partnership, the oppression of which is gradually intensifying their rage. The IEI-LSI-D dilemma is coming to characterize America.

    Right now Obama is trying to put out fires by figuring out where to focus the might of the U.S. government so that people's rage can be quelled. On the other hand, a shadow is looming in that people are increasingly choosing to pull away from each other and to form smaller groups, as a means of demonstrating their anger at how Obama is using this force.

    In his youth, Obama struggled to find his place. He waffled back and forth between his potential to take out his rage as a partially ostracized individual on those who ostracized him, and the path of forgiveness and inclusion. Apparently forgiveness and inclusion won.
    Last edited by tcaudilllg; 07-07-2010 at 04:23 AM.

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    Thread destroyed.

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    Barack Obama is most likely an Intuitive type, and IEI seems the most likely, although I can see why people might entertain IEE [Delta NF] or even LII [Alpha NT]. I think Michelle Obama is most likely a Sensing type, and she might be an SLE if Beta. I'm not sure about Bill Clinton, yet I'd consider him being a Sensing type, possibly SLE as well. And if that's not it, then I'd still say that Bill Clinton is in the same dual pair or quadra as Barack Obama.

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    I'd like to add that I'm also willing to entertain IEI [Beta NF] for Bill Clinton but not for Michelle Obama. Nevertheless I'm under the impression that they're all Beta Irrationals.

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    burak bumbama is a black hole.

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