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Thread: Rant: ESFj and neediness/spite

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    Default Rant: ESFj and neediness/spite.

    Today I am having to wonder if my ESFj boss is just simply evil if that is possible. I find her to be very dramatic, controlling, attention seeking and spiteful. I try to ignore her most times but that is just a big mistake on my part because the more I ignore her the more attention seeking she becomes. I have explained to her many times that I am just a naturally quiet person and that I do not dislike her. The truth is that she is extremely talkative and cannot stand her own company to the point where she actively pushes herself on others IMO. If I give her some attention she simply becomes more demanding and needy. Most recently she gained access to my computer password at work and falsified a lot of company records under my code...this has gotten me into a whole lot of trouble and gained a whole lot of attention and activity for her.

    A few weeks ago she baked a cake for me (I did not ask her to that) and I think she was not satisfied that I was esthusiastic and appreciative enough and I think she has been upset since then hence the revenge attack. These revenge attacks are very commonplace for her...especially when she does "nice" things for us but we are not as responsive as she would like. To me, she has such a strong desire to care for someone else that she will often get people into a lot of trouble deliberately so that she can rescue and mother them. I feel incredibly suffocated and annoyed by ESFjs at present. I believe this women is a very unhealthy ESFj ( and she is very much like the description of unhealthy E2s http://www.enneagraminstitute.com/TypeTwoOverview.asp http://www.enneagraminstitute.com/TypeTwo.asp)but one of my closet friends who is a healthier ESFj is also very attention demanding and extremely needy. I am just not sure how to deal with the drama and neediness that I experience with ESFjs anymore . I feel like I just do not have the energy or desire to give them what they need.
    Socionics: XNFx
    MBTI: INFJ

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    You are having problems with someone who is unhealthy, and they happen to be ESFj. If you want to send her to UDP's bootcamp, pm me for details and expense estimations.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    You are absolutely correct. Be carefull of peoples' capacity to be criminals. ESFJs tend to be very basic in their needs/desires.

    Everything you say rings a bell. The only thing you can do is protect yourself. In particular if these people commit crimes, such as falsifying records.

    Don't be afraid to use the law to its' full extend. If you are ENFP and living in the states you have a huge advantage in that the society is most likely ENTJ and it should be easy for you to use the full power of the institutions and law and order to control the criminal behavious of ESFJs and other types.

    ESFjs are masochistic, so be double carefull with them.
    Well I am back. How's everyone? Don't have as much time now, but glad to see some of the old gang are still here.

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    My point was, the person is unhealthy, not the type, Dio.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dioklecian
    You are absolutely correct. Be carefull of peoples' capacity to be criminals. ESFJs tend to be very basic in their needs/desires.

    Everything you say rings a bell. The only thing you can do is protect yourself. In particular if these people commit crimes, such as falsifying records.

    Don't be afraid to use the law to its' full extend. If you are ENFP and living in the states you have a huge advantage in that the society is most likely ENTJ and it should be easy for you to use the full power of the institutions and law and order to control the criminal behavious of ESFJs and other types.

    ESFjs are masochistic, so be double carefull with them.
    This post almost reads like an astrological horoscope.
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    I have seen people do some very very mean things to others. ESFjs are not the only ones capable of harmful behaviour, but these types of activities are typical of unhealthy ESFJs IMO.

    Also, each individual has the capacity for good and bad in themselves. Sometimes they act one way at other times in another.
    Well I am back. How's everyone? Don't have as much time now, but glad to see some of the old gang are still here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by UDP III
    My point was, the person is unhealthy, not the type, Dio.
    I agree absolutely. My grandmother was ESFJ and she was good to me personally.
    Well I am back. How's everyone? Don't have as much time now, but glad to see some of the old gang are still here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dioklecian

    ESFjs are masochistic, so be double carefull with them.
    Considering the amount of ESFjs around me I do not want to agree with this but it is true that the majority of them that I have come across tend to be attracted to things and people who just cannot give them what they want and they often end up in a sort of sadistic/masochistic type relation with them. Through observing a few unhealthy ESFjs, I have wondered if masochists are also prone to being sadistic too to get a certain punishing reaction from others. I am not sure why but of all the types i tend to come across far more unhealthy ESFjs than any other type...probably because I also work with women who are victims of domestic violence and the largest proportion seem to be ESFj women for some reason that i have yet to fully work out.
    Socionics: XNFx
    MBTI: INFJ

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    One ESFJ girl that I new when I was very young would play ith me and my sisters. She would come over and once she asked me to play a war game and asked that I tie her. So I did, then she started screaming that I had tied her, complaining in a loud voice. So I immediately untied her. She then asked me with pleading voice to tie her again. Which eventually I did, then she started to complain again. So then I left her tied and went away.
    Well I am back. How's everyone? Don't have as much time now, but glad to see some of the old gang are still here.

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    Masochistic sounds too harsh, Self-sacrificing is more accurate.

    See here:

    Ptype personality lists
    Well I am back. How's everyone? Don't have as much time now, but glad to see some of the old gang are still here.

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    Reik (1941) perceives the masochistic character as a composite expression of aggressive, ambitious, revengeful, defiant impulses revealed in fantasy or circuitously in action and directed against an actual person or persons, though often with what is termed a "reversed sign." He emphasizes the importance of the sadistic fantasy, citing it as the "soil in which masochism grows." Far from feeling , as Reich did, that in masochism we see an "inhibited exhibitionism," he maintains that the "demonstrative" quality in parading one's harmlessness, generosity, ineptness, or suffering is, indeed, actual exhibitionism, with the aim of concealing something else: "hostile, stubborn, vain-glorious tyranny." "Victory through defeat" is his summation of this construct.
    Shirley Panken, The Joy of Suffering
    Well I am back. How's everyone? Don't have as much time now, but glad to see some of the old gang are still here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Megan
    Quote Originally Posted by Dioklecian

    ESFjs are masochistic, so be double carefull with them.
    Considering the amount of ESFjs around me I do not want to agree with this but it is true that the majority of them that I have come across tend to be attracted to things and people who just cannot give them what they want and they often end up in a sort of sadistic/masochistic type relation with them. Through observing a few unhealthy ESFjs, I have wondered if masochists are also prone to being sadistic too to get a certain punishing reaction from others. I am not sure why but of all the types i tend to come across far more unhealthy ESFjs than any other type...probably because I also work with women who are victims of domestic violence and the largest proportion seem to be ESFj women for some reason that i have yet to fully work out.
    ... I believe it.

    LII men ought to step it up and find their duals.

    ...the problem for LII women, especially in my case, is that I have spent a great deal of my life "training" myself to not rely on other people. Other cases have LIIs being too soft and getting caught up in whatever relationship comes their way, often being too nice or unconcerned to care or seek out other things. Furthermore, for an LII, not seeing an intellectual connection with an ESE can be a problem especially if they do not understand socionics.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    Look....
    Quote Originally Posted by Strati's Fe description for LII
    Block SUPERID * the 5th Position * Suggestive Function * The "ethics Of emotions"
    Of robesp'eru to characteristically subordinate its emotions to reason. Frequently it produces the impression of man of solid, not bent, reasonable and emphasized restrained. Greatly it does not love the state of emotional overvoltage. It heavily transfers quarrels, hysterics, scandals - this costs it the heavy expense of forces.

    In the initial stage of relations Of robesp'eru to characteristically soblyudat' the distant distance, which is decreased only if it is convinced of the agreement of the ethical principles of partner with his own persuasions. If information does not seem it sufficiently convincing, it is inclined to experience the feelings of its partner

    It does entrust to that person, who not only does express to it his sympathy, but also does manifest the concern about it it does love worrying it does worry loving Robesp'er it does not love to explain relation - why? He so knows, as men it will enter into the following minute (good intuition), he always feels, as to it they relate, on that emotional indicator, which is placed in its subconsciousness and is disposed to the emotional regime of its duala of Hugo the emotions, which do not maintain testing by his "indicator", they are received as inadequate they seem either exaggerated or insufficiently expressed, either by too demonstrative or insincere or false.

    Sometimes Robesp'er produces the deceptive impression of man of insensible and not capable of the compassion. In reality it is capable to be anxious even to unfamiliar and completely outside person, although it can and to the member of its family refuse in the aid, if it sees that this aid estimates not in the manner that it is must (for example as the concession, dictated by weakness), or it is used not in the manner that it is must (for example for the purchase of the objects of luxury)

    It is connected very carefully to the mood of those surrounding. In the company of malosimpatichnykh to it people it is held bound and locked. Only falling into the situation of unconstrained merriment, sincere cordiality, sincere heat and cosiness, begin "to thaw", it weakens, is charged by overall mood, he becomes charming and interesting collocutor. It begins to literally sparkle by merriment, it smiles by the obayatel'neyshey, "solar" smile, thinly elegant it jokes, with the pleasure it entertains company by any amusing histories, which it usually is desirable to memorize and then still someone to retell.

    Being in the state of emotional lift, Robesp'er very rapidly conquers sympathies, with the ease he becomes the soul of company and is capable any evening to make unforgettable. External coldness and the severity Of robesp'era - this not is more than the shielding shell of its easily ranimoy soul. And best anything this understands precisely dual Of robesp'era - Hugo. The unapproachable restraint Of robesp'era not only excites the curiosity of Hugo (who frequently finds pleasure in overcoming of, it would seem, the insurmountable difficulties). It serves its kind as "touchstone" for the search of the psychologically compatible partner.

    In order to light these external "ices", is required the enormous sincere heat-, expressed in the emotional flow of the specific quality and nature. With the characteristic of it sincere flame and the energy of Hugo it storms this "unapproachable stronghold" so that entire robesp'erovskaya "coldness" is scattered as Hugo's smoke, although it does not hold in control itself in the manifestation of emotions, nevertheless makes this sufficiently tactfully (Robesp'er it does not allow violence above itself). Hugo manifests his emotions very aesthetically, is intelligent, with the taste, s. by a constant concern about feelings and about conveniences in its partner. Hugo - only of all types of "etikov-sensorikov", capable of emotionally acting on Robesp'era very optimally. Only in the society of Hugo Robesp'er feels itself by properly calm, protected. Only it can properly be weakened next to it.
    The LII is not the easiest type to fall for someone, so to say... so even though the ESE is hardwired for a massive amount of emotional effort, it is often expended (this should sound familiar) on places where it is not needed, and perhaps not even appreciated.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    Quote Originally Posted by UDP III

    The LII is not the easiest type to fall for someone, so to say... so even though the ESE is hardwired for a massive amount of emotional effort, it is often expended (this should sound familiar) on places where it is not needed, and perhaps not even appreciated.
    I am often very astounded by the huge amounts of sheer emotion, initiative, effort and energy that ESFjs can direct towards people they have decided to focus their attention on. It would seem that this sort of behavior is well suited for winning over INTjs.
    Socionics: XNFx
    MBTI: INFJ

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