Dio

[Slacker]

So as to stop hijacking Implied's type thread. . .

He seems to at least value Fe. When he comes up with typings, he is very playful about how he brings them up. He likes to draw it out and create suspense. And he doesn't mind if everyone completely disagrees with him. In fact, he sometimes seems to think it's funny and part of the game. He also doesn't really argue for the types, he just kind of puts them out there.

I am going to say he has creative Fe. Maybe ISFp. Niffweed said he thinks dual-seeking Fe, and I can see arguments for that too. But I'm thinking not INTp based upon how he loves to get everyone going on types, because that is no Fe PoLR.

[aestrivex]

i'm very distressed as to how people can't see the immense amounts of Ti you're seeing from him. maybe it's because its very uncharacteristic of Ti to make as little sense as he does, but this is still clear as day.

[Slacker]

He doesn't come off as a thinking type to me, and the Ti doesn't hit me as hard as it does with most Ti people here. That doesn't mean he isn't a thinking type, just that he doesn't come off as one here in this forum.

[Slacker]

I just don't feel like he's INTj. For one thing, all the ENFps here seem to like him (me included). And he doesn't seem like a thinking type at all. Why did he ever think he was? I think guys tend to think they are regardless. He has a bias against ISFps because he had an unhealthy one in his family, as I recall, so I'm sure he wouldn't consider that type for himself. Also, I think he seriously rubs some of the ENTjs here the wrong way.

So I am leaning toward thinking he's ISFp but I'm not 100% there.

[Creepy-bg]

our Dio - off the top of my head alpha SF or beta NF... not really sure though (too stoned to think about it right now )

[Joy]

INTj > ISTj > INFp > other Alpha or Beta > Delta > Gamma

[Mea]

INTj > ISTj > INFp > other Alpha or Beta > Delta > Gamma

Yep.

[implied]

i'm very distressed as to how people can't see the immense amounts of Ti you're seeing from him. maybe it's because its very uncharacteristic of Ti to make as little sense as he does, but this is still clear as day.

i see what she means, inasmuch as even some of less sane INTjs will make some attempt (however shoddy it may be) to justify their reasons behinds types. it could be very easy IMO for a person to mistake him as a non-logical type, or some sort of irrational.

i have problems with dioklecian for many reasons although i don't think this means he isn't INTj. a lot of alphas rub me the wrong way. i'm guessing that dio provides a lot of ENFps with some sort of "pseudo-Te" which to me just seems ridiculous. for instance, a great deal of ENTjs are typed as ISFps by him. the ralph nader = ESFj typing was by far the most ridiculous although there are definitely more examples than just this.

although his expectations of a "positive Fe atmosphere" seem a lot stronger than say, some INTjs (UDP?) the expectations are still there. this isn't the first time i've been accused of being "rude" or "thankless" by an INTj.

[Dioklecian]

I was trying to keep out of this thread so that people can feel free to express their opinions without debating with me directly, however implied made some comments that are not related to type. In particular she says she has problems with me, that was not communicated to me before I opened the thread about her type, which was intended in a very positive way initialy, but that then became less so when Implied did not reply to one of my PMs.

I don't have any problems with implied.

Plus I don't have pseudo-Te, my Te is very genuine even if not well developed.

On other points I agree with Maria.

[UDP]

although his expectations of a "positive Fe atmosphere" seem a lot stronger than say, some INTjs (UDP?) the expectations are still there. this isn't the first time i've been accused of being "rude" or "thankless" by an INTj.

Rude?

I could see that being a result of an INTj dual seeking Fe from you, and getting Si and pleasant chatter, but not understanding your coldness when you switch from one topic of interest to another (Si leading, delta).

You have not been rude in any of my encounters.

[Logos]

I have a problem finding Dio's method behind his typing madness.

[UDP]

I have a problem finding Dio's method behind his typing madness.

Ultra-subjective it seems. I cannot tell if they are logically based or emotionally based, however.

[olduser]

they are intutively/sensing based. They must be related to a perceptive function if he can't describe them with any rational thoughts.

[UDP]

that could be.

[astralsilky]

For the record, unlike multiple other "INTps" on this site, I have seen no reason to doubt that Dioklecian is an INTp.

[implied]

For the record, unlike multiple other "INTps" on this site, I have seen no reason to doubt that Dioklecian is an INTp.

I see Fi as being interpersonal relating on a one-to-one level based on a common humanity, individual values, kindness, emotional honesty/sincerity (whether emotions are + or -) - whereas Fe is about social appearances, social roles, social protocol and cultural customs ... the energy to engage other people in groups for the sake of socializing, and also the ability to manipulate persons or groups to achieve whatever ends. I do not (yet?) believe that Fe is what is precisely required to detect the emotional state in another human being, per se, or the mood in a room in and of itself.

i can agree with you somewhat on this, but what about the ESTj who values as well and still follows customs and traditions? there are more than one way to look at and and liking holidays/observing traditions/fitting into cultural norms doesn't mean "does not value ." seems like ISTps do this sort of thing quite well with their . it just manifests itself differently among different quadras. i had a moment there myself where i had conceded that he could be ILI. i agree with heathie's observation.

they are intutively/sensing based. They must be related to a perceptive function if he can't describe them with any rational thoughts.

as for dio's type, as you seem really quite excellent at v.i. and even pegged my own childhood pic as INTp -- http://trnacespeak.blogspot.com/2006/03/my-pic.html

[astralsilky]

i'm very distressed as to how people can't see the immense amounts of Ti you're seeing from him. maybe it's because its very uncharacteristic of Ti to make as little sense as he does, but this is still clear as day.

OK, so how are you defining and interpreting Ti in this case?

ESTps exhibit lots of Ti. How do you see this playing out in the type?

EXTjs are mostly consistently concerned with Te > Ti, even though they value both. So, again, how do you interpret this?

INTjs have a reputation for being the most concise communicators. Do you agree and, if so, what might this mean about how Ti functions?

[leckysupport]

I doubt dio's conflict thread shows him as a sensory type, especially a SEI. My guess is either a EII or a IEE, EII being more likely just due to what I see as introverted behavior. (subjective reasoning etc)
Also attention seeking doesn't equal valuing , a lot of IEEs do attention seeking stunts just for kicks. I'm guess by the fact that he does it and is comfortable with doing it points away from PoLR. He seems to direct his attention seeking stunts at individual people and he doesn't drum up a audience like gilly would do, which I think is a sign of .
The complete lack of sense he makes IMO points towards in his super-ego ; I don't think that a ILE would put up with a individual who lacks so much sense.

[implied]

I doubt dio's conflict thread shows him as a sensory type, especially a SEI. My guess is either a EII or a IEE, EII being more likely just due to what I see as introverted behavior. (subjective reasoning etc)
Also attention seeking doesn't equal valuing , a lot of IEEs do attention seeking stunts just for kicks. I'm guess by the fact that he does it and is comfortable with doing it points away from PoLR. He seems to direct his attention seeking stunts at individual people and he doesn't drum up a audience like gilly would do, which I think is a sign of .
The complete lack of sense he makes IMO points towards in his super-ego ; I don't think that a ILE would put up with a individual who lacks so much sense.

i was about to mention your typing him as EII! expat's typing of him as IEE in another thread made a great deal of sense, too.

[implied]

His typings are usually inspired, so to speak, by Ni, but then supported by Ti.

how do you figure this is ?


if i can quote Cone:

Maybe I can answer this 'duck' question. If, perhaps, both an Ni and Ne are watching a duck, the Ni would focus more on the actions of the duck, and thus become mesmerized by the way it moves in the lake and how it affects its environment. The Ne, on the other hand, would see the duck as an integral part of its environment, and thus attempt to extrapolate possibilities, or reactions, from the duck. He might call to the duck, throw a rock at the duck, or do something else in order to get a reaction out of it. Eventually, he would bore with it and chase after some other object in the environment, such as a group of pigeons pecking at the ground, often running through them just to see them scatter. The Ni would continue to watch the duck, thinking of the Ne as too flighty or carefree, although the Ni suffers from the same lack of concentration as the Ne, only it is of a more introverted form. After a minute or so, the Ni will become distracted by some thought or image, and thus fall into a blank stare, continuing to look at the duck, yet his thoughts are elsewhere. An Ni can seemingly look mesmerized by an object, as in the duck, and stand there staring at it for quite a long time. The Ne becomes confused by this mesmerization and leaves the Ni to continue with his wonder and amazement of the duck. Yet, the irony is that the Ni's thoughts in no way, shape, or form resemble that of a duck.

i feel as though dio generally throws rocks at ducks or yells at ducks in a rather format, generally. perhaps this is why nicky thought he was acting a bit ISFp-ish (looking for a reaction from the duck.) i think things move a little more slowly with INTps than they do with some types, like ENFps absorbing massive amounts of information (i'm thinking of my ENFp friend who probably consumes more media products in a week than i could in a good month or so.)

[Joy]

which was intended in a very positive way initialy, but that then became less so when Implied did not reply to one of my PMs.

Do you have any idea how clingy this sounds?

[UDP]

Answer this Dio:

Implied's type is ISTJ in my final opinion.

Now come on, Dio....

And I suppose you can explain why?

Expat, as you know I have no wish to convince, simply because I am not very good at it. It took me some excruciating effort to find her type and it even involved some percsonal risks, mainly getting very close to people that share the same type with Implied and typing them.

At the same time Implied promissed to help me develope my discovery but wants to know the actual discovery without bringing anything to the table, and I refused to tell her the discovery in such circumastance, she did nothing. I am being very very kind if I may so myself.

What is this empathy seeking? You expect others to pick up your slack because you repeatedly cannot explain things yourself? Here is a tip for your likely T-related polr: If you cannot explain it simply to others, that may be an indicator that what you are trying to say is not actually true. And even if Dio is an INTj, you have absolutely no understanding of how to check yourself with reality. But you do not strike me as an INTj:

Robesp'er fears tax occasion for the volitional action on itself; therefore sometimes it attempts to appear by man without the weaknesses ("iron Felix"). It does not love, when they play on its weaknesses. Suffer whimperers it cannot, it does not make it possible to pity itself (it does not love cheap ethical it is special effect). Never it makes possible for itself to manifest force with respect to the weak.

NO LII in his right mind would let such a glaring weakness go on continuously. Making the same mistake over and over again, -- the same remarkable inability -- would cause a certain amount of psychological pain to an LII and perhaps to any "NT". So either you are an LII with a problem - a pathological tendency of running away from things - or, you are some other type that has some issues regarding logic.

[eunice]

Dio reminds me of mikemex sometimes.

[Mea]

IMO, Dio is INFp. Seems like he values Fe and Ti.

[Slacker]

So people think he might be IEE? I can't say no to that - creative Fi sometimes looks a bit like Fe. And that would also explain why we ENFps seem to overall like him very much. He comes off as sweet and funny to me. I can't see an INTj coming off that way to me. And he has trouble explaining his though processes, and I certainly have that same problem.

I don't see any Ni at all in Dio. But I'm no expert in Ni so I can't even say that for sure. When he's typing people he jumps from type A to type X (nothing like A), to type B, and then to type W or something. That sounds more like Ne than Ni to me too. Like he's considering every possibility.

[UDP]

Rereading what I quoted in the above post, it could be seen as dual seeking on Dio's part.

[Mea]

He looks IEE, but he doesn't seem IEE to me.

[eunice]

He comes off as sweet and funny to me. I can't see an INTj coming off that way to me.

Anyway, I agree with IEE. He looks and writes like one. I can also see the dual seeking that UDP was referring to.

[implied]

attempting to go by my understanding of the functions --


i could also see a case for INFp if it is to be said that ISTp/ESTj has the tendency to leave from all things uncomfortable and depart from all negative sensations (as opposed to creating strong, postive physical sensations like ESFj/ISFp.) he has stated that he's bugged by people who complain about gross disharmony in their environment, which seems -rejecting to me. so he may very well be a type.

regarding him making typings and backing them up with or "just trust me." seems very anti-Te. he doesn't seem to like it when people ask him to assert his typings. some of the types that are most likely to demand logical evidence are who?

ESTjs like to ask questions and find out facts. They do not accept foggy answers, demanding concrete data.

so maybe that isn't a poor argument for -polr.


and i agree with eunice on the mikemex similarities, what with the scientific discoveries and all.


anyhow, i'm about to die of laughter over here so please someone substantiate/agree/disagree with me. dio is the next mikemex <3.

[Expat]

Rereading what I quoted in the above post, it could be seen as dual seeking on Dio's part.

It could indeed.

That is one manifestation of Si dual-seeking in some ENFps (perhaps strong intuitive subtypes) -- "I am the big-ideas person, it's your job to help me with details".

[Expat]

Further thoughts --

Dio reads a lot, he's interested in a lot of things. He likes to "type by quotes", listing lots of quotes but never really explaining why those quotes suggest any specific type. He gets information but does not really analyze it (that I can see).

He's interested in personal relationships and insecure in them at the same time. He also seems to often post what just happens to cross his mind, which varies considerably.

I think ENFp is a good possibility.

[astralsilky]

For the record, unlike multiple other "INTps" on this site, I have seen no reason to doubt that Dioklecian is an INTp.

I see Fi as being interpersonal relating on a one-to-one level based on a common humanity, individual values, kindness, emotional honesty/sincerity (whether emotions are + or -) - whereas Fe is about social appearances, social roles, social protocol and cultural customs ... the energy to engage other people in groups for the sake of socializing, and also the ability to manipulate persons or groups to achieve whatever ends. I do not (yet?) believe that Fe is what is precisely required to detect the emotional state in another human being, per se, or the mood in a room in and of itself.

i can agree with you somewhat on this, but what about the ESTj who values as well and still follows customs and traditions? there are more than one way to look at and and liking holidays/observing traditions/fitting into cultural norms doesn't mean "does not value ." seems like ISTps do this sort of thing quite well with their . it just manifests itself differently among different quadras.

You raise a good point.

Based on my observations for the last few years, it seems like when someone expresses their so-called "suggestive" (5th) function, it appears a bit overdone to others (especially conflicting types) and is experienced in a "primal" way for oneself - especially when overlaid in the context of the dominant function. I'll have to start another thread on this somewhere else ... I had started writing on it here, but the result was sloppy and incomplete, so I deleted it.

i had a moment there myself where i had conceded that he could be ILI. i agree with heathie's observation.

they are intutively/sensing based. They must be related to a perceptive function if he can't describe them with any rational thoughts.

as for dio's type, as you seem really quite excellent at v.i. and even pegged my own childhood pic as INTp -- http://trnacespeak.blogspot.com/2006/03/my-pic.html

Thanks!! I was going to ask for his pic! You beat me to it.

But why are there so many people on that page? Which is he (the one in 3 of them? Don't want to jump to conclusions). In the 3rd pic down, it SEEMS like there is a (rather ethereal looking ) ESFp on the left and an INTp on the right ...

((Thank you also for your generous vote of confidence in my v.i. - it may be better than most, but I still have a ways to go and appreciate outside validation to make sure I stay on track.))

[Quirk Satellite Div.]

After reading type and function descriptions, when first reading his posts on this forum, I never thought he was an INTp like he claimed to be. The thing that hit me about him after reading several dozen of his posts is that he might have some type of T PoLR, as UDP mentioned. He seems afraid of making himself vulnerable to people emotionally, as from his post in the Implied typing thread, mentioning that he felt he put himself at risk to assess other people's types, and his responses in his thread about being taken advantage of by people. There was another thread where he asked people how to avoid conflict, and how he felt he was being specifically targeted by other people to be ordered and bossed around, giving the example how he felt a computer lab personnel unfairly told him to turn down his headphone volume. Could all of this be indication of a weak ?

Delta NF seems plausible, although he seems to complain more about people taking advantage of him and exerting power over him rather than about how he can't understand anything rather than his inability to explain himself or understand what people are implying. I know I am jumping to conclusions, but his weak is probably manifested as a role rather than PoLR since the way he writes, it seems he believes that his problems with are something that haunts his existence all the time, something he can't avoid whatever he does.

[aestrivex]

i'm very distressed as to how people can't see the immense amounts of Ti you're seeing from him. maybe it's because its very uncharacteristic of Ti to make as little sense as he does, but this is still clear as day.

OK, so how are you defining and interpreting Ti in this case?

in large measure, it has to do with the way that he processes information. what i've observed extensively from Ti types (particularly alpha NTs) is that they very easily jump to conclusions and rarely explicate their thought processes, considering them to be extremely obvious and that it's simply a waste of time to reference each of the logical connections that they come to. this is, i believe, exactly what we're seeing from dio, although it is amplified by a seemingly complete inability to make any sort of reasonable judgment and to explain himself even at all.

others have challenged this perception, but i still believe this is fundamental to the way that dio processes data.

ESTps exhibit lots of Ti. How do you see this playing out in the type?

EXTjs are mostly consistently concerned with Te > Ti, even though they value both. So, again, how do you interpret this?

INTjs have a reputation for being the most concise communicators. Do you agree and, if so, what might this mean about how Ti functions?

i don't see what most of these questions have to do specifically with dio, but i will briefly try to answer them:

beta Ti mostly comes in the form of order, discipline, and concrete results rather than the speculative tendencies of LIIs. SLEs' Ti mostly plays out through knowledge of specific areas, and the demand from others to produce results in those areas.


i don't understand in your second question why you suggest that EXTjs value Ti. as i view it, EXTjs primarily use Te and consider Ti to be pretty much a waste of time. although i can't say that i have thought extensively on the use of Ti in EXTjs; generally it isn't very important.


LIIs can be very concise communicators when they want to be. I wouldn't necessarily say that they always are. It seems to me more that they are simply focused on different areas than Te, and whereas (alpha) Ti is more concerned with intellectual development, Te finds it necessary (and naturally does) to be able to justify one's claims, thus making their speeches somewhat more long-winded in order to back them up with evidence.

i would say that dio definitely qualifies as an excessively concise communicator.

[Not A Communist Shill]

Dio reminds me of E.T., if that's any help.

[Dioklecian]

they are intutively/sensing based. They must be related to a perceptive function if he can't describe them with any rational thoughts.

Exactly.

[Dioklecian]

I just don't feel like he's INTj. For one thing, all the ENFps here seem to like him (me included). And he doesn't seem like a thinking type at all. Why did he ever think he was? I think guys tend to think they are regardless. He has a bias against ISFps because he had an unhealthy one in his family, as I recall, so I'm sure he wouldn't consider that type for himself. Also, I think he seriously rubs some of the ENTjs here the wrong way.

So I am leaning toward thinking he's ISFp but I'm not 100% there.

Dio is not an ISFP.He seriously rubs a handful of people the wrong way, but that doesn't mean much - and do consider the fatc that those "ENTj"s might not even be entjs after all.

His typings are usually inspired, so to speak, by Ni, but then supported by Ti.

I think you could say that they misunderstand me, but that deep down they love me very much

[Dioklecian]

I have a problem finding Dio's method behind his typing madness.

My method is top secret, it resides in the heart of the earth, it is guarded by dragons and princesses with poisined fingernails

[Dioklecian]

I have a problem finding Dio's method behind his typing madness.

Ultra-subjective it seems. I cannot tell if they are logically based or emotionally based, however.

That's a very interesting comment. I was actualyl wondering that myself. In principle they should be Te, but I also use Fe it seems.

[Dioklecian]

I doubt dio's conflict thread shows him as a sensory type, especially a SEI. My guess is either a EII or a IEE, EII being more likely just due to what I see as introverted behavior. (subjective reasoning etc)
Also attention seeking doesn't equal valuing , a lot of IEEs do attention seeking stunts just for kicks. I'm guess by the fact that he does it and is comfortable with doing it points away from PoLR. He seems to direct his attention seeking stunts at individual people and he doesn't drum up a audience like gilly would do, which I think is a sign of .
The complete lack of sense he makes IMO points towards in his super-ego ; I don't think that a ILE would put up with a individual who lacks so much sense.

I don't see how I lack "sense". I don't explain my choices in detail simply because it's not worth it.