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Thread: How to argue with ESIs-ISFjs

  1. #81
    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Introverted Fi as a base function may have incoherent thoughts; this is because what is external expression of thought (Te) is in the person's subconscious. They, like myself, are only really capable of reacting to certain things, sometimes intensely so. I've had a lot of good practice in engaging in calming my emotional reactions and seeing the problem as though it's not some personal attach on my moral compass, then what begins to happen is that I approach the problem as though I were a third party, in helping the Maritsa understand what the issue is from many perspectives, then helping her come up with many possible scenarios or situations in how to deal with it; this way, I'm not attacking the person in front of me as though they were not trying to be helpful, because I've had to tell myself several times, that most people don't really have bad personal intentions towards you.

    My duals have taught me to think and approach a problem in an external logical manner; they are great at removing their personal and subjective emotions when solving other people's problems and offering up many solutions. Taking this advice back personally, it helps the Fi base type to calm down, which is the most important part, because fueled emotions and deep seated passions can cause a tunnel vision, and suppression of thinking logically about the person and the situation at hand.

    In the following thread, you will observe my posts in reaction, not thought of what is presented, and my reaction stems from my subjective values, or outlook on this matter as well as my judgment of how this matter should be:

    http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...865#post829865
    Last edited by Beautiful sky; 03-07-2012 at 12:05 PM.
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

  2. #82
    Ti centric krieger's Avatar
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    edit 2: btw, what's your (temporary/current) take on this trait?
    i think it has a lot of potential, which is a euphemism for saying it's useless because any potential it has is just potential and none of it is being realized.

    but, if Viktor Gulenko is right about the way ID functions work, this trait is to some extent underrated. it is more structural than has up to this point been supposed. it parallels static/dynamic in certain sense. it could be taken as a basis for its own set of "temperaments" if only the proper interpretation was known, Aristocrat/Democrat being the counterpart dichotomy in that instance. but this is pie in the sky talk.

  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    A PoLR hit (well, more like "every weak function hit") for ESIs is generally much simpler than that ime, HLD. You just have to talk in very theorethical and abstract terms, quickly lacing together a variety of thinking patterns. The ensemble might very well be completely meaningless, actually, it will usually be completely meaningless and useless - but they'll feel bad. I don't do it purposefully but I've seen it happen.
    Yea this makes sense, and I think probably happens a lot with out it being intentional, what do you think?

  4. #84
    Decadent Charlatan Aquagraph's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    Introverted Fi as a base function may have incoherent thoughts; this is because what is external expression of thought (Te) is in the person's subconscious.
    What's internal expression of thought? Just adding more words to a sentence doesn't make it more sentient.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    [...]because I've had to tell myself several times, that most people don't really have bad personal intentions towards you.
    You have to keep telling that to yourself.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    My duals have taught me to think and approach a problem in an external logical manner; they are great at removing their personal and subjective emotions when solving other people's problems and offering up many solutions. Taking this advice back personally, it helps the Fi base type to calm down, which is the most important part, because fueled emotions and deep seated passions can cause a tunnel vision, and suppression of thinking logically about the person and the situation at hand.
    @to all
    How is Ti different from this and why doesn't it help a Fi base? How would the Fi base react?
    “I tell you, freedom and human rights in America are doomed. The U.S. government will lead the American people in — and the West in general — into an unbearable hell and a choking life. - Osama bin Laden

  5. #85
    Local Hero Saberstorm's Avatar
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    My closest friend is an Se-ESI-C - they are like mafia kingpins crossed with Roman Catholic Bishops. You don't argue with them. You tranquilize them. If not, you must unlock their hidden potential for vengence and set them off on a tangent that somehow triangulates something you support. Think rouge elephants, polar bears, or sleeping dragons. Really, stay away from them. They are quite obdurate (yes, go look it up! It is a good word for them!)

    The Fi-ESI will tend to retreat from discussions. They are quite soft and will not discuss things that they strongly oppose. They will then regroup in another room with their supporters, and (sometimes quite haughtly) make an announcement concerning their position, only to retreat again if confronted. (Think Barack Obama.)

  6. #86
    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    ESI like ILI and like SEE and LIE, hold certain truths and hold fast to them, and because of this any amount of convincing otherwise is not going to work.
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saberstorm View Post
    My closest friend is an Se-ESI-C - they are like mafia kingpins crossed with Roman Catholic Bishops.
    Hah, I actually know someone like this in real life.

  8. #88
    boom boom boom blackburry's Avatar
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    Whaaaa? the guy in the OP sounds friggin awful. I usually love asking other people's point of view on things (if I deem them to be at least somewhat intelligent and people usually are unless proven otherwise) especially when it comes to how to do things/science etc.

    He's threatened legal action? That's insane. I'd be a smartass and go ahead and print out any possible legal action he can do, shove it in his face and go- "here you go. thanks for making working together unbearable. and completely ruining any possibility of anyone respecting you or your opinions."

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