My INTj girlfriend

[tcaudilllg]

Well the ESFj thing doesn't seem to be working out. She's a decent person and all, but....

The person who I've really hit it off with is an INTj.

She's very gentle, a few years younger than I am. I think she's an INFp exertion type, for what it's worth. She knows she's an INTj after seeing the profile at socionics.com. (although I suspected it from the beginning)

Not bad... except there are things she definitely will not offer, nor does she feel wrong in not offering them. This despite our politically aligned natures. (we're both liberal)

[James]

What, exactly, will she not 'offer'?

[Darkstar]

the act by which male and female insects join together using special parts of their bodies.






















:(

[James]

That was my guess, but I wondered what he would say. Assuming that is the case, I know I am cautious getting to know a new 'special' guy, especially having been burned a (very) few times. Once or twice is more than enough for an INTJ to 'get it'. I doubt this even has anything to do with her being an INTJ, though - just a smart, cautious girl who is taking care of herself and wants to be with someone who will show her that he is a good man.

[UDP]

Not bad... except there are things she definitely will not offer, nor does she feel wrong in not offering them. This despite our politically aligned natures. (we're both liberal)

It is compelling to cheer on Tcau - nothing is wrong with being clear on whether a girl will put out for you or not.
But you out off all people should know that INTjs are not up for flings.
Somehow I do not think that is what you were talking about, but it seems more humorous if things are interpreted in that way.

I doubt this even has anything to do with her being an INTJ, though - just a smart, cautious girl who is taking care of herself and wants to be with someone who will show her that he is a good man.

Good advice, especially for an LII on the receiving end: be sure to be demonstrative and SHOW her that you are a good person.

You do not want to go over the top and exaggerate and be fake obviously, but use some of that exertion to demonstrate.

[Darkstar]

Turning socionics aside, the thing could just be that you guys have a fun loving relationship but there is no sexual tension in the picture. I'm getting the idea that you have gotten to known this person, you hang out, do stuff together. Perhaps you make out, I dunno but you shouldn't assume just doing that you get a free ticket to the "loveliness" . If you would then have sex it wouldn't transcend smoothly and it's like walking in the park then you sit down and masturbate. doing something like that could really be fucking awkward and could seriously mess up your relationship..

You think this could be the case?

[cracka]

it's like walking in the park then you sit down and masturbate.

What, you've never done that? j/k

lol, i just wanted to point out that I found this amusing. hahaha.

[tcaudilllg]

She is... ruthless about things. Sex isn't one of them. (she's an INTj after all) The question is really a matter of common interests: she prefers fiction books, I prefer games. Neither of us has any patience for the other's preferred activities.

On the other hand, I did just last night meet up with an ESFj. She adores me, but eh... love triangle! >_<

[UDP]

Cloud Strife has nothing on you, Tcau.

[Gilly]

Cloud Strife has nothing on you, Tcau.

LOL

<3 nerd humor

PS I'm playing that game right now

[Not A Communist Shill]

She is... ruthless about things. Sex isn't one of them. (she's an INTj after all) The question is really a matter of common interests: she prefers fiction books, I prefer games. Neither of us has any patience for the other's preferred activities.

On the other hand, I did just last night meet up with an ESFj. She adores me, but eh... love triangle! >_<

You need less love triangle, and more bar brawl circle .

[James]

She is... ruthless about things. Sex isn't one of them. (she's an INTj after all) The question is really a matter of common interests: she prefers fiction books, I prefer games. Neither of us has any patience for the other's preferred activities.

On the other hand, I did just last night meet up with an ESFj. She adores me, but eh... love triangle! >_<

What does this mean, ruthless? And when you say that sex is not one of them, are you saying that she is not 'into' sex, or that she simply has not 'given up' the goods to you yet? I can't imagine being 'clammy' with someone if I trusted and loved them, but I have my doubts that you have earned her trust. You seem like you just sort of will take whatever comes your way, until it loses its novelty. How did you get this girl to talk to you?

[tcaudilllg]

She is... ruthless about things. Sex isn't one of them. (she's an INTj after all) The question is really a matter of common interests: she prefers fiction books, I prefer games. Neither of us has any patience for the other's preferred activities.

On the other hand, I did just last night meet up with an ESFj. She adores me, but eh... love triangle! >_<

What does this mean, ruthless? And when you say that sex is not one of them, are you saying that she is not 'into' sex, or that she simply has not 'given up' the goods to you yet? I can't imagine being 'clammy' with someone if I trusted and loved them, but I have my doubts that you have earned her trust. You seem like you just sort of will take whatever comes your way, until it loses its novelty. How did you get this girl to talk to you?

How? She's a liberal. She lives in NY, I live in Ohio. Big divide, there! We've been talking for several weeks. We've grown quite close.

Really, the fact that she is a liberal is a tremendous influence. I have some 40 double matches on Hotornot.com, where I met her. All of them are liberal.

Oh she trusts me. All non-pathological liberals trust each other. That's the way of the world.

You should read my theory primer in non-socionics type theories. Political ideosyncrasy is the single most important factor as regards relationship quality, bar none.

Even more important than socionics types relations, in fact.

[aestrivex]

All non-pathological liberals trust each other. That's the way of the world.

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[tcaudilllg]

All non-pathological liberals trust each other. That's the way of the world.

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By liberal I mean the political far-left, not the economic concept thereof.

[aestrivex]

that makes little difference

[tcaudilllg]

Regarding what?

In case anyone is wondering, the first ESFj I talked about is still quite available. Here's her link:
http://meetme.hotornot.com/r/?emid=O...&mp=1&start=10

I imagine she would get along rather well with machintruc.

[tcaudilllg]

It turns out my "ESFj" girl is actually an ENFj. There are... noticable signs of semi-duality, for example we seem to be competing for control of the conversation at times. And she sees drama everywhere. She has lots of interesting stories to tell, like most ENFjs.

She's sweet, though.

[Kirana]

That was my guess, but I wondered what he would say. Assuming that is the case, I know I am cautious getting to know a new 'special' guy, especially having been burned a (very) few times. Once or twice is more than enough for an INTJ to 'get it'. I doubt this even has anything to do with her being an INTJ, though - just a smart, cautious girl who is taking care of herself and wants to be with someone who will show her that he is a good man.

and INTjs are typically, smart, cautious girls by nature. it's simple, time is required to evaluate a guy. time is a guy's worst enemy if his intentions aren't sincere - because the longer the time passes, the more likely he will trip up and reveal his motivations if he's really looking for something short-term. and short-term flings aren't worth the bother. a year, if you're looking for a short-term thing, is a big investment, and often not worth it, because you wait for longer than you want to stay. but a year, to someone intending or considering to stick around 30-40 years, or at least 10 foreseeable ones, is only 10% and therefore worthwhile.

plus, if a guy just wants sex, then time is also what will separate this sort of guy from the one who really cares. in fact, i wouldn't be surprised if she gives off a vibe of never will offer sex, because a belief that he will never get it (regardless of whether it is a true belief or not) is a kind of litmus test in itself as it can force out an answer to the question: will he stay anyway?

i think most women know this instinctively, but not many has the resolve and clear-headedness to stay the course - except INTj women.

[Darkstar]

I think that is stupid. Testing the man by not having sex to see if he stays is clearly a lack of confidence in her own personality. A belief of not being able to sustain a relationship without sex. this a defense. She gets in to this bubble with only two scenarios: The man don't want to spend time on a woman that is not sexual (interpeted as he is a pig and only wants sex.) OR He stays and they live happily ever after as the most boring couple ever she thinks he love him ,maybe he do. But it is still.. fucked up. The woman plays a game, tempting perhaps them both to sex but not getting the cookie. Anyway, the woman don't play straight and that's not cool especially as there is no profit for both of them. She should waste boths time and just say what she want. Or make some serious insinuating. Just holding of sex is to immature and kindergarden'ish. Both are grown up and should say what they want.

Kirana you try to give a compliment to intj women (perhaps yourself) with this : i think most women know this instinctively, but not many has the resolve and clear-headedness to stay the course - except INTj women.

almost makes me feel like you think the other women are whores and sluts. INTj women they sure know how to keep their legs together. I would say that they are just childish and unreal. It is not like if you have sex you have to marry and carry his child. INTj woman we live in the 20th century you dont have to be stone age.

perhaps it is just me but to quote you " time is a guy's worst enemy if his intentions aren't sincere" "more likely he will trip up and reveal his motivations"

You either are a bad guy magnet or have had to little experience. Someone perhaps have hurt you in the past, taken a toll on your self-confidence. Don't let that get to you! You just had bad luck there are tons of great people out there waiting to meet you. Get back on that horse missie!

[Not A Communist Shill]

I think that is stupid. Testing the man by not having sex to see if he stays is clearly a lack of confidence in her own personality. A belief of not being able to sustain a relationship without sex. this a defense. She gets in to this bubble with only two scenarios: The man don't want to spend time on a woman that is not sexual (interpeted as he is a pig and only wants sex.) OR He stays and they live happily ever after as the most boring couple ever she thinks he love him ,maybe he do. But it is still.. fucked up. The woman plays a game, tempting perhaps them both to sex but not getting the cookie. Anyway, the woman don't play straight and that's not cool especially as there is no profit for both of them. She should waste boths time and just say what she want. Or make some serious insinuating. Just holding of sex is to immature and kindergarden'ish. Both are grown up and should say what they want.

I think I see things in a similar way to Kirana - it's a kind of test to see how the person reacts - if they act angily to this 'game' for example, you know they aren't the right kind of person for you (or at least Alphas). The game appears paradoxical, as there appears to be only two outcomes 1) the other person leaves because you consider them unsuitable or they think you too frigid , or 2) the other person gets the wrong impression of you, but stays with you because they a 'non-physical' person.

But, the 3rd outcome is that the other person spots the game and discusses it with you, because they understand the reasons - the shared understanding results in the best possible situation.

[Darkstar]

Subterrenean, let's get to the bottom of this behaviour!

How should they act about this game? Happy? discontent? What does the reaction matter? What different outcomes will they have?

WHY are the game made in the first place? Is my theory of being hurt in the past, lack of self-confidence about your own personality(or some other part) right? If not, then what?

I re-read this part a couple of times:
because they understand the reasons - the shared understanding results in the best possible situation.

Cant really get my head around it, care to elaborate? I might not have asked the right question about this to understand it completely but imagine I did and answer the imaginary questions! =D Would love to understand this

//Darkstar

[Not A Communist Shill]

Subterrenean, let's get to the bottom of this behaviour!

How should they act about this game? Happy? discontent? What does the reaction matter? What different outcomes will they have?

WHY are the game made in the first place? Is my theory of being hurt in the past, lack of self-confidence about your own personality(or some other part) right? If not, then what?

I re-read this part a couple of times:
because they understand the reasons - the shared understanding results in the best possible situation.

Cant really get my head around it, care to elaborate? I might not have asked the right question about this to understand it completely but imagine I did and answer the imaginary questions! =D Would love to understand this

//Darkstar

It costs the INTj a lot to be truly open about themselves - they don't want to reveal their very personal special needs etc. - they want someone else to have figured it out, and in that moment, both the INTj and the partner understand each other. The INTj loses nothing, because they haven't explicitly put anything into the other person's head - so their correct deducement of the game shows that the other person thinks the way they do and shares similar values.

A INTj is unwilling to make a big move, so there are certain small steps of revelation until the critical mass is reached - when the two understand each other, there is nothing else to tell, apart from the finer points - I might have vaguely said in the past I liked something, but appeared non-comittal at the time without going into depth - INTjs tend to make understatements (or should that be 'INTjs make understatements' ). If I had gone into depth in those situations, I might have left myself feeling horribly exposed. I think the of INTjs (and ENTps) counteracts the understatements, to give overstatements - if it is obvious you are exaggerating, the other person may tell there is an element of truth in it, and yet you can always deny it. If they can't tell there is an element of truth in it, or take it completely seriously (e.g. at face value), then that's the wrong kind of person for an Alpha .

[Darkstar]

now when you say intj's do this and intj's think this. You aren't just saying what you as an intj feel and think? Perhaps two people are of the same type but they are not the same people. No insinuations intended just asking. Just wondering if it is type related or just normal human psychology.

I feel that what you are describing are not a self-secure individual. I think everyone feel they are exposing themselves when telling the truth. You don't want to be rejected but some people get over it and just do it.

If I had to choose between someone who knew everything I wanted, who understand me completely. Someone who I didn't have to put my neck out there for. OR for someone who I had to explain it in detail what I wanted, and didn't fully understand me and I had to make troublesome explanations. Who I have to go through a shit load of shit to get. Well needless to say, I would take the first. But expecting the first is just not realistic. That person is like one in a hundred. And if you go through every one hunded person will take A LOT of time. So to make things easier: When you meet someone you say what you expect and want if the other part don't like then go to next. Don't do some secret testing period that will take forever and perhaps waste both of our precious time.

What do you make of this, Subterranean? If I sound bossy with ' Do's ' and ' Dont's ' then just bend your mind a little. It's just how I feel and I don't try to force anything on anyone.

//Darkstar going to bed-- Aka won't answer in a while. (with reservations for writing poorly and tiredly)

[Ms. Kensington]

how come you always say "to" instead of "too"?

[Ms. Kensington]

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I tried to imagine how one could express the confusion of 90? questionmarks.

[Not A Communist Shill]

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I tried to imagine how one could express the confusion of 90? questionmarks.

Niffweed - the face that launched a thousand questionmarks.

[Darkstar]

how come you always say "to" instead of "too"?

I am on a diet =)