Navigation, Sense of Direction and Functions

[XoX]

This was discussed a while back but I want to open another thread.

I seem to have lots of problems in my sense of direction especially in new places. I sort of totally lack a "bird eye view" or "map" of the environment. This means I only remember the "pathways" i.e. roads I travel. So once I master one route from place a to place b it is hard for me to get of that route without getting lost. Once I have mastered enough routes I can start to improvise and sort of combine those routes to new routes. But still I pretty much have to work with the routes I have travelled. I just cannot see the topology of the area "from above". I am tied to "ground level" navigation. I am also generally lost about where is north, south etc. I just remember the routes and where they cross and completely rely on that information to navigate. Once I have learned enough routes I can give the impression to outsiders that I have a bird eye view but I never really do. I can just travel the different "pathways" or routes in my head in a very fast speed to calculate the most optimal route. Once we get of the familiar territory I immediately lose my sense of direction and any impression of "bird eye view" I might have seemingly shown is gone...It also seems I have to focus very hard to remember the routes but once I have mastered them they and their combinations come easily.

So what are the functional properties of navigation, sense of direction, "bird eye view" of your environment, having a "map" in your head etc. What functions play what role?

[machintruc]

edited

[Not A Communist Shill]

Can you remember details about big landmarks\buildings, i.e. 'I just passed the church - it's behind me on this road'?

I have a fairly short memory while navigating, yet I'm quite good at it in a new environment while following a map. If I try to go back along the new route, I tend to get lost without a map or major landmarks.

Some postulations:

I think Ne\Se types would be best at determining the best route simply by looking at their local environment (e.g. at the ground-floor) level.

Ni\Si types would be good at tracing back a route they just followed without the use of major landmarks - they probably follow + remember generic features.

Ti\Fi types would be good at remembering major landmarks etc. on their route.

Hmmm...

Previous tests challenging men and women to make their way through virtual-reality mazes, or real-life scenarios, have shown that men tend to be speedier and use different strategies to women.

But Rahman points out this does not mean that all women are bad map readers, or that it is the mental strategy employed that makes the difference.

Women tend to navigate using landmarks. For example: "Turn left at the church and carry on past the corner shop." Rahman told New Scientist that "men rely more on the points of the compass; they have a better sense of north, south, east and west". They are also more likely to describe distances.

[Expat]

So what are the functional properties of navigation, sense of direction, "bird eye view" of your environment, having a "map" in your head etc. What functions play what role?

As a general comment, really not related to my views on your type --

I think that going by "pathways" that you remember is more Se and Si related; having a map on your head "from above", or even thinking about where north, south etc are is more Te related.

I am the precise opposite of what you described. I have to make an extra effort to notice physical details along a particular route - and even then, I will focus on some specific details as "reference points" but not notice others. So I hate it when someone gives me directions based on sequential following of physical features.

When I move to a new place - which I have done many, many times - I immediately look at real maps to get precisely the "bird's eye view" of the area, based stronly on locations of main roads and neighbourhoods. Then I have a pretty good sense of where things are in the big picture.

So, my opinion is that my case is the Te>Si way, yours is the Si>Te way since easily noticing physical landmarks is definitely Si.

Types such as ESTjs and ISTps, and ESTps and ISTjs are probably at ease with both ways.

[Not A Communist Shill]

I am the precise opposite of what you described. I have to make an extra effort to notice physical details along a particular route - and even then, I will focus on some specific details as "reference points" but not notice others. So I hate it when someone gives me directions based on sequential following of physical features.

That seems really weird - it's difficult for me to comprehend, apart from 'that is so no me' .

[Expat]

That was the origin of a lot of conflict between me and an ESTp former colleague.

He'd say, "let's meet that guy at the pub [insert name here] there along the road on the way to work".
Me "I don't recall the name. Which road exactly? The A27, or the B45?"
He (getting impatient): "the main road, the one you take after turning right at the roundabout after those old wooden gates".
Me "which wooden gates? That doesn't ring a bell"
He "are you blind? You've driven past them lots of times!"

Etc etc etc

Of course, if I do go there, then I recognize the pub and even the wooden gates, but they don't get "saved" in my memory if I don't think of it specifically.

[cracka]

That was the origin of a lot of conflict between me and an ESTp former colleague.

He'd say, "let's meet that guy at the pub [insert name here] there along the road on the way to work".
Me "I don't recall the name. Which road exactly? The A27, or the B45?"
He (getting impatient): "the main road, the one you take after turning right at the roundabout after those old wooden gates".
Me "which wooden gates? That doesn't ring a bell"
He "are you blind? You've driven past them lots of times!"

Etc etc etc

Of course, if I do go there, then I recognize the pub and even the wooden gates, but they don't get "saved" in my memory if I don't think of it specifically.

haha, i give directions kind of like your buddy. I tend to give even the smallest details to people though, like, there's a red ford focus on the corner with a busted tail light and you'll turn right after that. Then go up about half a mile and there's a road on the left, you'll see a big rock on the right of the road before you turn. etc... I guess I just describe more what people will see than expect them to know where i'm talking about like your buddy did, even if it's a place I know they've been.

[Expat]

I guess I just describe more what people will see than expect them to know where i'm talking about like your buddy did, even if it's a place I know they've been.

Well, he was hardly my "buddy", just for the record --

[Blaze]

I guess I just describe more what people will see than expect them to know where i'm talking about like your buddy did, even if it's a place I know they've been.

Well, he was hardly my "buddy", just for the record --

*coughgammacough*

[Quirk Satellite Div.]

having a map on your head "from above", or even thinking about where north, south etc are is more Te related.

This would describe my sense of navigation, and and how I figure out my location. I usually don't mind going off the usual-driven path, since I usually have a map in my head of where the roads are located in proximity with each other. If I find myself in an area I'm unfamiliar with, I can figure out my approximate location rather easily and get myself back to where I need to go rather quickly without needing to pull out an inconvenient county map. Sometimes I know I will be taking risks and making assumptions, but most of the time my guesses end up working(For note, I completely befuddle my friend, who I believe is an ESTj, when I do this). But I don't usually think of my path in terms of what landmarks I pass, the name of the road I take, or the exit number on the highway. I am nearly lost when having to give directions in terms of road names, but I can usually point to certain landmarks and buildings, if it's necessary. It's usually not a problem for me to remember details of areas I have traversed a few times, so I can describe directions in terms of an areas characteristics.


Perhaps my abilities are demonstrative of having a strong , but having a marginally capable .

[FDG]

having a map on your head "from above", or even thinking about where north, south etc are is more Te related.

This would describe my sense of navigation, and and how I figure out my location. I usually don't mind going off the usual-driven path, since I usually have a map in my head of where the roads are located in proximity with each other. If I find myself in an area I'm unfamiliar with, I can figure out my approximate location rather easily and get myself back to where I need to go rather quickly without needing to pull out an inconvenient county map. Sometimes I know I will be taking risks and making assumptions, but most of the time my guesses end up working(For note, I completely befuddle my friend, who I believe is an ESTj, when I do this). But I don't usually think of my path in terms of what landmarks I pass, the name of the road I take, or the exit number on the highway. I am nearly lost when having to give directions in terms of road names, but I can usually point to certain landmarks and buildings, if it's necessary. It's usually not a problem for me to remember details of areas I have traversed a few times, so I can describe directions in terms of an areas characteristics.


Perhaps my abilities are demonstrative of having a strong , but having a marginally capable .

this describes me perfectly

I also have some troubles because I remember the way something is done but I don't remember its name, for example when somebody tells me

"let's meet at X"
I have to go on like "you mean the club with the yellow lights and near the corner etc etc"

[cracka]

I guess I just describe more what people will see than expect them to know where i'm talking about like your buddy did, even if it's a place I know they've been.

Well, he was hardly my "buddy", just for the record --

lol, sorry bout that.

[Minde]

I'm kind of both, I think. When I'm alone and lost, I of course have to rely simply on maps and a sense of direction, which usually works out fine once I get past the whole "lost and alone" freaking out part. I'd say I have an average sense of direction - better in city grids than on twisty country roads, though, and a sunny day helps. When I'm driving somewhere I've already been, I tend to rely a bit more on landmarks. When getting directions from people, I happily accept descriptions of physical features, but I also try to get as much map data as possible, just in case. The more information of both kinds, the better. When I'm giving out directions, I tend to give what I'd like to receive with perhaps a greater emphasis on mapping.

[reyn_til_runa]

XoX, may be unlikely, but i'll ask anyway: are you a synaesthete?

I have an odd sense of direction. I have a hard time giving directions because of the uncommon landmarks I remember to guide my own way, but generally speaking, i can find my way around a new place after a few attempts. left and right, however, is a problem. i've noticed it especially when getting into cars and getting gas. i've had my car for 5 years now and still have to stop and think every time which side my gas tank is on. sometimes i find myself remembering that "one time" I got gas at some specific gas station which was for whatever reason memorable to me, then picture my car's position there, and translate to current location. at work, there is a van in which one of the doors automatically slides open at the push of a button and one of the guys has to use that side because his other side is paralyzed. i always have to look at his body to remember which side of him is paralyzed and then orient myself around the van when i've parked in a new location to ensure safe loading.

[XoX]

XoX, may be unlikely, but i'll ask anyway: are you a synaesthete?

It is highly unlikely. Only thing even remotely to that direction is that I sometimes associate different shapes to people's forum posts e.g. they can remind me of "round" objects or "sharp edged" objects etc.

[astralsilky]

I don't know why, but my instinctive sense of direction is excellent.

When I drive places, I often "feel" my way there - even if I'm oodles of miles beyond familiar territory. Getting lost is just about unheard of (even if the roads are all angled and turning and stuff - I can find our way back - some of my friends (an ISFp and an ISTj) were once exaggeratingly shocked by my ability to do this, even angered! (??) I just assumed most people could do this, but they were perplexed).

And I also enjoy going off and discovering new roads, even an hour a way from familiar ground, exploring new territory. It's almost like when I have even TRIED to get lost, I couldn't. (Sure wish other things in life were more like that! )

I'm often surprised when asking others for directions, is "destination X located on the N or S side of the street?" or whatever, and most people usually don't know. It just seems like such a useful thing to be aware of??

When I give directions, though, sometimes it takes a little time for me to recall every detail in order. I navigate so spontaneously - often upon instant recognition of objects I've seen in the past. I often don't remember it until I see it again. But usually I can give some specific landmarks in addition to the roads for a place I only visited maybe once or twice. Not every detail, but often the ones I have subjective associations with (even if superficial).

[XoX]

I don't know why, but my instinctive sense of direction is excellent.

Someone claimed we are blatanly obviously same type. I guess we are not

[Expat]

FWIW, I never thought you were.

[redbaron]

haha, i give directions kind of like your buddy. I tend to give even the smallest details to people though, like, there's a red ford focus on the corner with a busted tail light and you'll turn right after that. Then go up about half a mile and there's a road on the left, you'll see a big rock on the right of the road before you turn. etc... I guess I just describe more what people will see than expect them to know where i'm talking about like your buddy did, even if it's a place I know they've been.

You're just like my husband (who's also ESFj)--he'll give me all sorts of details when giving directions or talking about someplace he thinks I should know and he'll keep giving me more and more details in the quest to help me figure it out. He still does this after 13 years together. I have to become familiar with an area gradually. Eventually I will be able to decipher N, S, E, W, and even start to notice landmarks but it has to happen over a longer period of time. (like a year or two)