Ryu

An SLI I know recently told me about how her neighbor has recently withdrawn from interaction. In the past, the SLI and her neighbor have been on fairly close terms. But suddenly, over the winter, things changed. And while there are some strange things that the other person did, I find the SLI is not exactly trying to improve things. It's a bit like she sees the situation as a green light to be more openly hostile to the person or to push the neighbor's buttons even more. What's more, I know the neighbor has been having a lot of stresses in her life (husband recently died, getting older, etc), so I can suspect a lot of reasons for things to be getting weird.

I bring this up because I saw this within myself, as well. It wasn't until after a lot of schooling from delta NFs did I really start to consider how much I was making things worse by doing things like that. I'm surely not perfect now, but I understand it a bit more.

As such, I was trying to explain to the SLI about how the sudden change probably is related to some other issues in the persons life; that some of the pettiness from the other person is probably not going to be aided by retorts that are specifically designed to cause damage.

It is strange, because I know the feeling the SLI has in regard to the said person. But I also appreciate the NFs for dealing with and hopefully helping out the STs; I wish the SLI had an IEE in her life . . .

jewels

yeah they can be so clueless it's frustrating. With no concept of how things will play out later, such as people cutting the SLI out of their life. I do my best to help, but it's frustrating when they just can't see something is hanging by a thread, and then take no responsibility when it ends completely.

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Hi! I'm an ENFP. :-)

Ryu

I think this is a form of being a "Te zombie" of sorts, as I recall Lobo saying. It's "effectiveness" towards something that is totally detached from the interpersonal realm, so it's actually a form of self-delusion.

Cyrano

I have NO idea what you mean...which is probably your point.

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ISTp
SLI

Enneagram 5 with a side of wings.

Ryu

I think the more well adjusted STs, who've had a lot of influence in terms of F and esp delta NFs would have an easier time with this. Once you've had someone express to you the importance of things like that, it's easier.

Cyrano, you seem like someone who might understand people enough to not do things like that so much. (?)

Creepy-Cyclops

I have done this at times too. I think at times I have done this has had something to do with feeling Fi rejected - the bonds been broken, and maybe if I press the issue it will result in them saying or showing that the static links not changed, and explain why.

It took some time for me to realise that that's dumb.

Ryu

Yeah- good point. The SLI did feel very much Fi rejected. And I've felt that way, too.

Cyrano

I don't think SLIs would kick someone when they're down so I don't get:

"[ISTp] sees the situation as a green light to be more openly hostile to the person or to push the neighbor's buttons even more"

I would expect the SLI to be sympathetic to the neghbor's problems, at least on a superficial level. Their must be more happening here than meets the eye. Does the SLI fear that the neighbor is dependent or overly needy?

I snow blow the drive for my elderly nieghbors, but I don't want to become friends with them and don't want them to be too friendly, especially so close to home.

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ISTp
SLI

Enneagram 5 with a side of wings.

Director Abbie

She was pushing the neighbor's buttons? Sort of like revenge? When someone stops being my friend, I abandon them. I don't antagonize them.

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ESTj-Te
1w2 sp/sx 1-6-2
Brilliand's Younger Sister.

Ryu

Well that's the thing, they were shoveling off each other's driveways first. But I think the SLI felt like the other person burned their bridge first, did something wrong against them, so the Fi rejection took place, and the SLI basically said "screw it".

Mattie

This most likely has to do with the stage of life the person is in... The SiTe and TeSi I've found in my life go between a certain binary- either be completely loyal and go down with the ship, no matter how hurt they get, or totally disassociate and remove all responsibility. I'm not sure about TeSi, but I find SiTe to do things to get reactions, but in the most subtle of ways. It seems like SiTe need to see where the boundaries of the relationship is in order to be sure of what to do next.

An SiTe and I who I am close with have promised each other to be completely direct with one another, because I find both NeFi and SiTe will will beat around the bush until someone makes the first step when it comes to relationships that matter (actually, I've seen this apply to NeTi and SiFe as well, so there might be a correlation). So I guess that an SiTe will be more confused and less inclined to directly find out when a relationship is unclear. The TeSi I know tend to completely shut down and won't make progress until they can't avoid it or the other person makes an effort, but even that might take a bit.

SiTe and TeSi tend to find avoidance to be a preferable solution until they can figure things out for themselves, but with this route, they aren't aware of how the other person is affected and how a quick and thorough closure might be a better option.

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Lobo

Yes, recall what I say. Actually, it's "zombeh," like in the Cranberries song:


Anyway, I've noticed Delta STs disconnect from the interpersonal/empathetic realm when they feel hurt. There was one time where I was feeling really depressed about life (which in the span of my lifetime happens infrequently), and this LSE must have taken something I did during that time as hurtful towards him, and so became somewhat hostile towards me. It's getting so caught up in your pain, that you don't realize what's going on in the other side. Needless to say, getting kicked when you're down doesn't help matters in the least bit. It makes me sad actually that my previous bad experiences with some STs might influence my relationship with them in the future. It's so much easier to just deal with NFs, who I usually have a significant mutual understanding with, but then it isn't as fulfilling.

Maritsa33

YOU'RE ISTP

I will spam all of your listings until you drop my initials and move to your territory.

I don't associate or accept intollerable lying and cheating.

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Enneagram 2w1

Mattie

Now I remember why I don't come here anymore. It's like the name changes and the same words are posted.

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silverchris9

^yeah.

Anyway, that whole Fi-rejected thing sounds interesting. Is it particularly different from any other type breaking off a friendship? I suppose delta STs are probably particularly sensitive to it, and particularly susceptible to "not seeing things from the other's perspective." Can someone say more about the being "Fi-rejected"?

Actually, not so much the Fi thing, but the "not seeing thing from the other's perspective" is pretty much an ST thing, the difference being that Delta STs find their lives improved by information about how they're "hurting the other person" helpful and are happier when they change this behavior.

Beta STs are just annoyed (and probably secretly somewhat shamed, especially if they grew up around Fi-valuers--I've felt that way about my polr before; I know they're right, but their way of saying it makes me just want to do the wrong thing on purpose) by that kind of information, and are more helped if someone they're close to (i.e., a beta NF) does some dramatic Fe thing to indicate their personal displeasure at the beta STs action, and the beta ST will then rectify the situation, empowered to do so by the reasoning that they're "doing it for [person x], not for the other person who has probably by this point become an enemy (and enemies are to be defeated, not mollified). If you tried the beta NF approach with a delta ST, they'd probably be really irritated and feel manipulated. Complementary functions are so cool.

Also, I hate that song by the Cranberries *so* much.

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Not a rule, just a trend.

IEI. Probably Fe subtype. Pretty sure I'm E4, sexual instinctual type, fairly confident that I'm a 3 wing now, so: IEI-Fe E4w3 sx/so. Considering 3w4 now, but pretty sure that 4 fits the best.

Yes 'a ma'am that's pretty music...

I am grateful for the mystery of the soul, because without it, there could be no contemplation, except of the mysteries of divinity, which are far more dangerous to get wrong.

WorkaholicsAnon

interesting, I tend to do the same thing with neighbors. . .hmm maybe i'm really SLI! The thought has crossed my mind several times now. . .

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Fi-IEE

WorkaholicsAnon

aww look.to.the.sky, dont leave!!!! I sincerely enjoyed reading your posts and want to hear more about your experiences with SLIs! I recommend putting Maritsa on ignore. . .she harrasses everyone with nonsense. And she has obvious Te POLR and Ti HA, so she's IEI not EII. And she VI's like one. Per multiple people including Rick. She even has her type wrong. Not a credible source at all.

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Fi-IEE

Lobo

The thing with Fi is that it can vary a great deal from one person to the next... You develop a system to deal with people, and have your own set of expectations. I bet this varies significantly from culture to culture, and a big chunk of it is set at a young age. With delta STs, I've found that they are pretty stubborn in what they think is right or wrong at times, since they don't apply energy/might find it harder to modify it if they see that it "works" for them. (As a side note, I know how much this must make beta NFs cringe ). I think it's important for STs in general to have a solid ethical and emotional foundation from a young age to avoid hardships in interpersonal situations later on.

Anyway, the Fi-rejected feelings might be triggered by seemingly silly things, but to them it's a big deal. When you don't put too much thought into developing a system of what is "right and wrong," making it handle exceptions, I see it as inevitable to have a selfish me-me quality of morality, which is under the illusion that you are right and everyone else is wrong...* I think this is the reason for the seemingly childish displays of hurting the other person without rising above and assessing the situation more clearly. Btw, I know that the wording I'm using might make me sound arrogant, but I'm saying it from being in that place before and having a realization.

I honestly think that another important factor is in not valuing Ni... Though I can't pinpoint exactly what it is, but people who value Ni tend to think of things that might be happening which are not readily apparent. You need to fantasize a bit about "what could be" in order to stumble upon a thought that leads you to consider that you might be hurting someone. There are times that after I have an interaction with someone I think about what they might be off doing, just out of curiosity. If you don't wonder about flow of events, you will have to get external stimuli in order to think about the other person being hurt. The funny thing is that EIIs and IEEs tend to be good at it, BUT they don't directly require or expect people to be good at it, because they see it as something that is normal in human being to have. I've found that they (me) sometimes have no idea that the reason why an ST, for instance, is doing something that is hurting them is because they do not readily think about these things. It took me a long time to see this and actually convince myself that some people just do not use Ni, since it's something that I naturally use, yet do not value external displays of it... It's a very ironic thing, really.

*Before I develop my idea further, I want to say that I really disagree with the concept of function "strength," as in someone Fi leading is better at Fi than someone who isn't. It doesn't necessarily have to be the case... It just so happens that someone who values a function above others will undoubtedly have a high change of developing it into something that has a more complex nature than other types', and is able to take into account other variables and situations. Things become stronger in nature only when they are stimulated.

Ryu

I don't think it's about strength either, per se. More just .... disposition and emphasis. I also agree that weak Ni is somewhat of a factor, too, because the STs are very focused on present mechanical interactions.

I sort of see the elements and being exposed to healthy influences using them are very important; when you grow up lacking proper exposure to certain elements, it may make you more prone to having issues about them later on in life - and it's especially so with your weak functions.

Cyrano

We are duals ya know.

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ISTp
SLI

Enneagram 5 with a side of wings.