Maritsa33

Don't they?

One ESTj told me that the only reason why he called me was because he was bored
Another ESTj told me all kinds of really mean words...
Another ESTj behaved like I was special, but ultimatly had the worst of intentions.
I was told by one ESTj that I wasn't as physically attractive as he would like me to be.
An ESTj friend cheats on his wife ALL the time; I had to explain to him that he has to keep a code of ethics for himself; to refrain from cheating with co-workers because that's not healthy for a good work environment.

The negatives keep filling the stack.
Before socionics, I would have avoided men of your type like the plague...I think I may need to start that again.

__________________

Enneagram 2w1

VixenDogFox

Not really... I made a big post about why this was her true type, even thanking Maritsa for the typing which turned out to be REALLY accurate.

__________________
SLI

Ryu

No.... ?

Oh my God...

WorkaholicsAnon

yeah for some reason her ISTp typings tend to be accurate--maybe b/c she's dated a bunch of them

__________________
Fi-IEE

Ryu

I was hoping Maritsa would actually respond, but, perhaps she's actually asleep now

In healthy terms, what you said is more characteristics of beta - testing people's emotions. Delta STs don't do that, when healthy at least.

WHat you described below, however, is NOT what healthy people do, especially delta STs. you should NOT be with people like this, or expect that they are acting like how your dual is supposed to act : /

You should definitely not try to have a relationship with people who act this way. You should avoid people like that, and if you think socionics is telling you to pursue them, then, something is very wrong in your understanding of socionics. You aren't supposed to be treated poorly in a relationship.

Yeah, so, once again, I tell you that you have to realize there is more to relationships than socionics. Some people are not good people and not fit for relationships with you, regardless of "duality" or anything like that.

It's a bit like expecting a serial rapist will change his ways, if you just set him up with someone who is his socionics counterpart.

tiny_dancer

Honestly, I have no idea whether jewels actually broke up with her boyfriend. I was actually joking in posting my original response, since everyone was like "Awwwwwwww" I just felt like saying "Fuck that" to be the devil's advocate.

Anyway, it was a silly thing to post b/c her relationship is her business, and breakups have two points of view, not just one.

But I do believe that people have a pattern of behaviors and a set of attitudes that you can observe in action over the course of years, and there are bits of them in every relationship they enter into. It's an observation, and it's probably heavily influenced by my gamma father, too. Usually for those things to change, something has to happen that causes them to stop and rethink how they look at things and put real effort into it. Doesn't have to be only with relationships. Sometimes it's a financial disaster, loss of a job, the near death of a close friend/family member. People can change more slowly too, but they still have to have some sort of impetus.

__________________
IEE

jewels

yeah I did break up w/ him. Many things came together and he was basically being a selfish jerk. He was completely shocked. He'd been blowing me off because he was annoyed at having to listen to all the "problems" and lost some sleep over it. So I came in and just got my stuff.

He wants us to get back together, but I told him the list of problems and said he'd have to fix them first. I said I'm not sure if he can/will, despite him saying he will. So I'm waiting to see. In the meantime, I'm single and letting him take me on occasional dates. He knows I'm single and I told him he now has the same chance any other guy has.

There's a chance he can do it (and I of course really hope he can), but I'm not too optimistic as his original choices are weighted more than what he says might happen someday. He's done really well at some great dates so far, but sometimes slips into his selfishness.

We spent a couple days together on a road trip and he took 3 hours to go off and do something he wanted without me, leaving me waiting with nothing to do (as I contemplated how this was suppose to win me back...)

So it remains to be seen. I just want an awesome ISTp in whatever form that takes.

__________________
Hi! I'm an ENFP. :-)

tiny_dancer

nvm. enough venting from me.

__________________
IEE

Maritsa33

Wow, I can't believe you're even going on a date with him. I would sooooo not even do that. I guess I would be really nice to him, but dating him back? That's just playing with your own feelings...I guess you would do it because he's not fooling around on you and you want him to fix some of his problems. The point here is that he will not fix his problems and if he is ISTp and not ESTj; I would suggest you have a little mental session with yourself and figure out what you are supposed to be doing during his escapes. Maybe the duality dynamics is such that you really do have to be doing something else for yourself, this is the independent nature of this dual relationship. Maybe you are not making enough plans to do things together?

__________________

Enneagram 2w1

Ryu

eh

Maritsa33

what?

__________________

Enneagram 2w1

Creepy-Cyclops

eh... (reticent even to type that)

Maritsa33

I really wanted to read what you wrote her...did you delete it?

@Jewels

Here's a little insight to draw conclusion from in benefit of your situation
The reasons why ISTp's are comfortable in relationships with activity, me-INFj's, are because:
1. We don't ask anything of people to do for us, even though we know there are things we can't do for ourselves. We just expect people to read our minds; you may need to stop to realize that ENFp are very vocal and that may be something that requires balancing out with ISTp, at least until you dualize. So we are very very independent.
2. I had to essencially plan everything for us to do.
3. He wasn't a bad person, just required indirect affection, without pointing to problems.
4. I did all the cooking and all of the cleaning.

__________________

Enneagram 2w1

Creepy-Cyclops

Here Maritsa, have a cookie

Ryu

I find maritsas response peculiar in light of her recent post about how she was putting up with loser guys just because they typed as her dual , and that before socionics she would have avoided men like that.

Maritsa33

So?

__________________

Enneagram 2w1

Ryu

Uh...
Anyway,
Maybe, maybe, there is some hope here - maritsa is starting to see how there are other factors than duality at play "he will not fix his problems AND dualitydualityduality".

tiny_dancer

Isn't that called reframing or something? Adjusting your mindset to make peace with what is essentially a shitty situation, which ultimately damages yourself? One of the worst things about being NeFi. Seeing someone else's point of view to the point that your own needs become nonexistant, and you might even think that you're the one to blame or are supposed to be able to fix it. Blah.

__________________
IEE

Maritsa33

What are you trying to say? Just say it; I feel that you are being too cautious with your words...just say it!!

__________________

Enneagram 2w1

Maritsa33

Only if it's not type related; if it's the same problem with all ISTp's then do you want to be with an ISTp? Adjusting action maybe not mindset.

Don't see it from their viewpoint, see it in terms of a removed viewpoint, a sequence of actions.

In my case, with the jerk ESTj's, was that they were not willing to commit so they, being ESTj's will say any mean thing to drive you away.

__________________

Enneagram 2w1