Rasputin

How do you guys conceive of self-improvement?

pinkcanary

lots of masturbation.

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SEI/ISFp-Si subtype
4w5 sx/sp

Galen

I find myself highly based in self-improvement, but only in the fields that I really care about (self-introspection, video games, health, Japanese, etc). How exactly do you mean by 'conceive' though?

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Fi-ENFp
6w5 sx/sp
orz

Rasputin

By "conceive" I mean what does the term mean to you? I thought of asking something on a more specific level, like "How do you implement self-improvement" or some other synonymous question, but I decided that it would be best to step back to a more general level to first see what self-improvement even means to people of different quadras. Heck, I think most people in this world don't care much at all about self-improvement, so if I asked the more specific level question first, people would probably either not respond or say something like "I don't", "it doesn't matter", "what are you talking about?", or some other synonymous response. Myself, self-improvement is very important. It's what my life's all about. It means being the best possible version of myself that I can be.

aixelsyd

Please supply a more coherent word than 'conceive.'

In any case, self-improvement can mean many things. I find it a continuous quest where the harder I strive, the farther I get from my somewhat abstract goal.

It's an admirable thing, but for me requires more sufficient motivating factors to want to pursue. If I pursue it, it's usually for the sake of someone else and to be strong for someone else, even if I don't know who that someone else is, but that's really the only thing that makes me work towards it.

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5w4 sx/sp

Norge (w)hore

Rasputin

For me, self-improvement is an end in itself. I constantly measure my self-worth against parameters of self-improvement. This is one reason why I'm attracted to spirituality. I'm pretty much a Zen Buddhist, though I don't practice it as well as I should.

Minde

To me, self-improvement is often painful but always necessary. Sometimes I think I'm ok, but inevitably something comes along that corrects that perception. And, sometimes I find myself using my perception of my perfection/imperfection as a standard for my self-worth (and then I tend to descend into depression), but when I'm being "true to myself", so to speak, I know that my worth is not bound to my actions, thankfully. Still, doing the right things, having good and right understandings, is important to me. And to keep myself doing those right things and thinking those right thoughts I always need to correct and improve myself. Or be corrected and improved, heh.

Hm, how does that do for answering your question? (Sometimes getting the more basic and fundamental answers is harder than getting the specifics.)

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Creepy-Cyclops

Experience then re-formulating approach.

Ryu

When I was very young I noticed people doing things so poorly, I wondered why or how so. But I generally kept to myself and didn't have many ambitions. The older I got the more I saw things not going very well, and the more I wondered about what I could do about it.

It's hard to describe, but, self improvement seems more like I'm becoming who I really am supposed to be, things becoming better and more 'true', more understanding. Since I really started thinking about "who I was" as a teenager, there's been a fairly consistent conscious aspect to my self improvement or self development.

I see self improvement, in one respect, as more directed/guided movement. As much as I think I am one thing at a time, I know ultimately it is fluid. I can trace various developments and experiences. But I think part of things are also how you actually choose to spend your own resources and thinking - I know what creates certain outputs within me... so, it's very much "what do I want to focus on improving".

I've always been aware of this sort of game within myself - it is always there, but I do see it as a game and not as something more than that (This is related to why I think I'm E8 and not E1).

For a while, upholding certain standards seemed important to me, but that motivation doesn't much hold anymore. I have become somewhat immune to various forms of guilt or, as Minde wrote " And, sometimes I find myself using my perception of my perfection/imperfection as a standard for my self-worth (and then I tend to descend into depression), but when I'm being "true to myself", so to speak, I know that my worth is not bound to my actions, thankfully" - I don't feel anything like that. It doesn't 'work' for me, it just creates negativity, and "feeling bad about things" tends to slow me down. So it doesn't have substantial motivational power. But i do not like it when I do things below a certain quality - the thing is, it is to my standards and nobody else's.

I'm not particularly concerned with improving myself because it is "the right thing to do", or in one sense, even because "God says it's the right thing to do", although that isn't the full reflection of my take on spirituality. What motivates me to do better is very real, concrete things. The pain and suffering I see in other people, mostly, is what really motivates me to do things better these days. And realizing how much I actually impact people.

I've had experiences where I've created a lot of damage. And, I seem to be able to handle damage and certain things better than others. But at the same time, I have a certain callousness about it that I don't always realize. So I've hurt people unintentionally as well as intentionally. Point being, I'm wary as to how I actually impact other people, and I do try to be somewhat aware of having a positive affect on others. I know that when I'm at my worst everyone is subject to becoming destroyed, so I try to avoid being in that situation as well.

What really motivates me, again, is practically seeing how things impact other people. I don't want to study things in school because I want to make the world more perfect, I study them because there are situations where other people could benefit from such knowledge; there are situations where people could benefit from understanding the real moral consequences of certain actions, and how those moral consequences have real implications on the nature of someone's situation. Etc.

And I'm particularly focused on power and how it is used. I'd "rather not have to deal with caring about power", because it seems such a foolish thing to have to deal with. And yet it is part of this world. People can use power for many reasons and in many ways - but I trust myself, at least, to try to use it in a way that doesn't create more harm and exploitation than there already was. I don't trust others to do the same. So to this end, I do train myself so I can try to deal with these things.

I tend to have an internal struggle between a massive sense of hedonism and lust for physical things, and knowing that I have to work to provide for myself, and that, yes, if you dare to get involved in anything related to power and the people who wield it themselves, you better know your stuff and be on top of your game.


I'm drawn to people I think will help me with becoming a better person. I like people who are openly concerned about others and the world and I enjoy associating with them. In some ways, I see myself like a Wolverine (Xmen) type creature who can endure a lot of different things, and yet can be oblivious to a lot as well, but I also need people to tell me sometimes that I am not an animal, and appeal to my 'higher nature'. I see myself as having a strange relationship to the delta NFs because I tend to be shifting towards the "functional embodiment" of their ideals.

Sometimes I can get so caught up in the pursuit of or implementation of or enjoyment of certain things that I become isolated from 'ideals', and it is useful to have reminders about them. I have 'struggles' with certain kinds of motivation, particularly moral or ethical motivation, so I tend to need some kind of outside influence. I think because I'm an extratim, I have to see a 'need' for it or be around people who 'prefer things to be a certain way', and thereby because of that, those values can start to have meaning and significance. But then, once I really see the value of something and decide it to be that way for myself, that something is actually a good and reasonable way to go about something, I tend to be fairly unmovable from that stance, and will maintain it far beyond any external factors. Examples of this would be: having a disposition towards international affairs (no one in my family does), certain elements of relating to women (such as loyalty and generally trying to encourage people to find/be in positive relationships), certain eating/food preferences, certain cultural sensitivities/dispositions, and so on.

What motivates me most these days is doing things so I can help other people, especially those less fortunate than I am. I have a very comfortable life here on earth as an American in a middle class family. I can do more than get by. But as much as I drown myself in indulgence and hedonism, I seem to be unable to block other people out of my life, and the sufferings they endure. I simply 'cannot avoid' or 'cannot run away' from certain things. I know I'm ultimately more happy when I am operating in a way that is being beneficial in a more complete way; seeing things that don't work well tend to displease me... and I feel a sense of responsibility as well because I honestly seem to be able to grasp certain things better than others, especially how things "work" and "function" to produce practical results. I've also been learning that there is a lot that I don't know, or forget, or don't properly value... and although I don't exactly enjoy being criticized, if you can show me that I'm doing something poorly or how it's affecting others in a negative way, I will listen. "Beneficial in a more complete way".

And also, to those lucky enough to move towards my inner circle, I am highly motivated to make certain people feel good. I really enjoy doing nice things for people, and there is slight motivation to be able to provide nice things for people I like. And I sort of automatically try to understand what kind of things people like. I cannot particularly change my preferences, but, in so much as what I like, if I can share it or develop my preferences to suite theirs, I will.



I've basically found some things in my life that are fairly solid in terms of values, interests, and abilities, so my main 'interest' seems to be pursuing things things and getting better at them. I've always seen myself as getting better at something. So that's basically just what I do with my life and time, although of course I do plenty of enjoying as well. but even leisure activities, like games, or socionics, or discussing relationships/women, or dancing, tend to lead me to thinking about how i can do whatever it is better.

Director Abbie

Sinning less or becoming more like one's dual.

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ESTj-Te
1w2 sp/sx 1-6-2
Brilliand's Younger Sister.

Minde

I realize that my former reply doesn't really answer the question. I won't delete it, though, because it's still semi-relevant.

Hm, that's a very succinct answer. I like it - big truth(s) encapsulated in small maxim. Though I might add that self-improvement also can involve growth in other areas, like skills and knowledge (even where one is already strong) and just general well-being.

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Ryu

Do you like Thomas Edison's sayings?

Minde

I don't know any of his off the top of my head, so I couldn't say.

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Ryu

It seems I meant Benjamin Franlkin..
You probably heard them before...
""Early to bed, early to rise, makes a man healthy, wealthy and wise.""

Ryu

Words of Wisdom from Benjamin Franklin
Benjamin Franklin's Sayings

Maritsa33

Okay, see this is the reason why I wonder how many EII's there are really on this forum; I am an EII and I first seek to understand what you're question, then I answer it.

For example:

What do you mean by conceive?
Is it to define what self-improvement means to me?
Or is it to question how self-improvement is manifest in me?
Or is it how I seek to improve my self?

Conceive is not the right verb; it's as bad as asking..

How do you ride self-improvement?
Or
How do you shoot self-improvement?

Are you asking...

What is my personal strategy for self-improvement?
How would I improve my self?
If I had choices to improve upon myself of five, what would I choose?

What are you asking?

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Enneagram 2w1

Minde

Those are good questions.


@ Ryu - Some of his sayings are alright. I'm not a devoted follower or anything, though.

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INFj / EII / FiNe
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Maritsa33

Thanks, this is the first time you see eye to eye...what a struggle it was to get here.

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Maritsa33

ISTj
ESTp
ESTj
In that order of probability of your type.
any other....???

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Enneagram 2w1

Lobo

Why do we need to go into such detail?.. He's just asking what it means to you.

Well, to me, self-improvement is learning about life and knowing how to deal with it. My goal is to become stronger in both mind and body in time to overcome difficulties, so that I can live my idealized life. My priority is the mind though, since it's what leads to action. Self-improvement is reaching closer to this surreal body and mind experience, where I'm able to understand everything, or at least to a level that doesn't affect my emotional state.