mercutio

jewels .. the amount of date rape is high .. lots of guys expect girls to have sex with them if they take them out for dinner .. if they don't.. then they can punish them, or force them.

it's life, deal with it. not every girl can stand up for herself.

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- Mercutio

mercutio

btw.. fwiw it's been noted that i can take a lot from a little amount of affirmation .. and tend to like it when girls try and hide that they like me, where i have to kind of prove that they like me, like they can't deny it.

for some reason lots of girls seem to like to diminish/reject me. some even before i've done anything.

but it's okay, cos some girls will be positive about me without me doing anything too.

but like for things like kissing .. it's obvious when a girl wants to be kissed .. but it's more fun if you don't kiss them ;P rub noses or something.

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- Mercutio

jewels

Not every girl can stand up for herself? I disagree. Every girl has the ability to and also to not put herself in stupid situations.

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jewels

OK, let me re-write that and replace "drunk driving" with what you wrote.

and, jewels, he didn't kill anyone when he drove home, he had four drinks and drove. and he liked it. so no one's saying it's okay to drive drunk. he probably could tell that he was just a little tipsy rather than extremely drunk. SLEs aren't THAT dumb. lol.

And a situation being the "worse case scenario" doesn't make it more or less likely to happen. I mean, you can sleep with someone who has AIDs and not get it. That would also be the worst case scenario.

And yes, both the worst and best case scenarios for any decision need to be taken into account before deciding. Otherwise you aren't taking any responsibility for your actions. And both having a few drinks and driving home and letting a guy kiss you after you've said "no" are actions that can lead to a variety of results. If you're not ok with the worst case scenario for something, you shouldn't be doing it.

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The Greeter

When I say "no" I mean no. Although this moment is incredibly romantic, it's not my kind of thing. It depends how "no" was said; I suppose and I assume that Sirena's tone was very uncertain so perhaps he took that as a hint to proceed --to get rid of her doubts, kind of thing. But if it was an indisputable and firm no, then something is definitely wrong.

Jewels, I'm with you. The alarms definitely rang as I was reading this.

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Jimbean

Remember, 93% of communication is non-verbal, folks.

The Greeter

I didn't say everyone was like me. I never even said it was irresponsible. I understood what jewels was saying because that's how I would have reacted. If anything more people seem to be on the side of this being an incredibly romantic situation rather than not and even I agree it is romantic, but it's just not for me.

And acting on the worst case scenario is not a bad thing either as much as you seem to disapprove of this method.

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jewels

are you saying if she looked into it, then what she said didn't matter?

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Cyclops

I wish a woman would say yes every so often, but maybe that is just me.

Jimbean

Sometimes you just have to trust what your gut says, and go with it. Back when I was dating my (now ex) EIE girlfriend, I used to have to start something that she wanted to do. She was timid, and would talk herself out of doing something, but I made it happen anyway. She could say one thing, but the sound of her voice, body language, and her eyes all could of said the opposite.

Ritella

yeah, exactly. i mean, this whole scenario seems very obviously "normal" to me.
it's not as if she said "no," he leans in to kiss her, she begins kicking and screaming, he puts her in a chokehold...
I mean, give me a break. It's sort of clear that her "no" just meant that she was shy, rather than that she didn't WANT TO kiss him, and that he was probably somehow testing her receptiveness (through body language, as Jimbean said, or something...).

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EII; E6(w5)

i am flakey

Ritella

ummm....

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EII; E6(w5)

i am flakey

mercutio

i just wish they'd close their mouths until they're gripped from the back of the head until their mouth opens involuntarily and they can be kissed.

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- Mercutio

mercutio

actually cyclops, you really oughta meet some of those yes girls, that say yes without you having to say anything, just to be postiive... they tend to be really boring though.

if you struggle, try going up to girls and be like "no no no"

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- Mercutio

Creepy-Mimosa Pudica

... you know, a rape does not happen like "woops, he just turned around and raped me even if I said no, and it all happened so fast, just in a second, and I couldn't even think before it was over"...

I promise you people would KNOW if I did not want to be "raped".

Also, a rapist won't care what you say, or whatever game you "play". You can say "no" and mean it or "no" and not mean it, and they'll still rape you if they can. It's not as if "no" means anything to them anyways.

When you involve yourself with another person, you risk getting killed, too. A crazy person is bad luck, and you can prevent it as far as possible by not being naive about who you let close or who you chose to play with. Still shit happens. In a normal relationship, with a normal person, you can say "stop" at any stage, and people will respect it and withdraw. Normal people do not find it hot to force others sexually.

You notice pretty fast if someone means things or not. Example - had Sirena not wanted the kiss, she would have pulled away when her boyfriend started to kiss her, and he would have pulled away, too. Words are not the only way to communicate.

If someone rapes you, then it's rape, regardless of what games you have played earlier. And people know the difference, unless they are crazy, and then games and words don't matter.

If he doesn't get that your "no" means "maybe", then he should interpret the "no" as a "no". If he gets the game, he can play. I can't see how this is unfair? It's like saying that it's unfair to find someone while playing hide and seek.

Either you see, or you don't. If you don't, then you hear "no". If you do, you can test the next step. And if you misunderstood the game, you'll know it immediately by the reactions of the other person.

Simple rules.

This was not an unknown person to Sirena....

And who cares about LAWS in this? Rapists don't. Laws won't prevent bad things from happening, unfortunately.

... I doubt Sirena wants just ANY guy to kiss her like that?
= This was a private game...

Assholes will always find an "excuse", yes.

Exactly. It's not a very hidden game.

Here you blame girls for being raped.

I agree we are all responsible for ourselves, though. But I can't understand how you think Sirena put herself in a bad situation? Would it change anything if she had said "yes"? Or could that not be equally "inviting" if the guy was a rapist? Should women always say "no"?

I ask these questions to show you people won't be confused about a victim-aggressor game. It's an erotic style, not a "wrong way of being".

You shouldn't live, actually, cause you might die young...

I don't disagree with everything you say, of course we have to take care of ourselves, nobody else will. But you don't get the victim-aggressor game at all, and you seem to try and tell it makes people rapists and rape victims. It's not true. Also, remember that victim-aggressor games go two ways. It's not always the woman being "chased".

Look at me: I never drink and drive. I never rape anyone. But I have kissed men saying no. I have done more to men saying no, too. I knew they didn't mean it, and I was right. Does that mean they would be to blame or deserve it if I had hurt them? Did they do anything wrong by not meaning their "no"s? I tell you, they secretely hoped for more, but pretended to be "decent". Had I been wrong about that, I would have noticed while undressing them.

If anything, me pushing on despite their "no's" only placed more responsibility on ME, and not on the person with the "fake no's".

It's an erotic game, turning people on. Not a rape invitation. I don't expect you to get it, but I felt like explaining.

idolatrie

Great post, Mimosa. You said everything I wanted to as I read through this thread with increasing horror at the way certain behaviour was being equated with rape.

ps, thumbs up to Mimosa from unefille as well.

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allez cuisine!

glamourama

I had deleted my post, but Mimosa said everything I was thinking, and better.

redbaron

Yes, Mimosa! and Jimbean, etc.

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IEI
4w5 sp/sx
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07490

I think jewels explain the rape situation In a Ne way and Mimosa Pudica dissect it in an Ni way.

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EIE 3w4 So/Sx

jewels

I agree

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