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Originally Posted by jewels  If you know the "no" was not really meant? And how can you prove that? I'm sure many rapists have been like "yeah the no totally wasn't meant." Do you know that they will still convict those guys? Is that a fair thing to do? |
... you know, a rape does not happen like "woops, he just turned around and raped me even if I said no, and it all happened so fast, just in a second, and I couldn't even think before it was over"...
I promise you people would KNOW if I did not want to be "raped".
Also, a rapist won't care what you say, or whatever game you "play". You can say "no" and mean it or "no" and not mean it, and they'll still rape you if they can. It's not as if "no" means anything to them anyways.
When you involve yourself with another person, you risk getting killed, too. A crazy person is bad luck, and you can prevent it as far as possible by not being naive about who you let close or who you chose to play with. Still shit happens. In a normal relationship, with a normal person, you can say "stop" at any stage, and people will respect it and withdraw. Normal people do not find it hot to force others sexually.
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Originally Posted by jewels The problem is girls really do have the power to change their minds and say it was rape, and if you said "no" there is a good chance he'll get convicted. It's a dangerous word to play around with. |
You notice pretty fast if someone means things or not. Example - had Sirena not wanted the kiss, she would have pulled away when her boyfriend started to kiss her, and he would have pulled away, too. Words are not the only way to communicate.
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Originally Posted by jewels Also, if it really was rape and you were in a habit of telling the guy "no" in a teasing way, then it's even harder to prove it was rape. |
If someone rapes you, then it's rape, regardless of what games you have played earlier. And people know the difference, unless they are crazy, and then games and words don't matter.
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Originally Posted by jewels It seems like a bad situation to put yourself in to not be clear, also an unfair situation to put a guy in too. You might think you're on the same page w/ a guy only to find out you aren't. |
If he doesn't get that your "no" means "maybe", then he should interpret the "no" as a "no". If he gets the game, he can play. I can't see how this is unfair? It's like saying that it's unfair to find someone while playing hide and seek.
Either you see, or you don't. If you don't, then you hear "no". If you do, you can test the next step. And if you misunderstood the game, you'll know it immediately by the reactions of the other person.
Simple rules.
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Originally Posted by jewels I'd say there are other ways to be coy, and with the laws being what they are, best to keep the "yes" and "no" words separate. |
This was not an unknown person to Sirena....
And who cares about LAWS in this? Rapists don't. Laws won't prevent bad things from happening, unfortunately.
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Originally Posted by jewels I mean, people are free to do whatever they think is hot in private, but it's not fair to guys or girls to promote the idea that you can tease a guy w/ the word "no" just because you find it hot. That's just a really bad idea. |
... I doubt Sirena wants just ANY guy to kiss her like that?
= This was a private game...
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Originally Posted by mercutio jewels .. the amount of date rape is high .. lots of guys expect girls to have sex with them if they take them out for dinner .. if they don't.. then they can punish them, or force them.
it's life, deal with it. not every girl can stand up for herself. |
Assholes will always find an "excuse", yes.
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Originally Posted by mercutio but like for things like kissing .. it's obvious when a girl wants to be kissed .. but it's more fun if you don't kiss them ;P rub noses or something. |
Exactly. It's not a very hidden game.
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Originally Posted by jewels Every girl has the ability to and also to not put herself in stupid situations. |
Here you blame girls for being raped.
I agree we are all responsible for ourselves, though. But I can't understand how you think Sirena put herself in a bad situation? Would it change anything if she had said "yes"? Or could that not be equally "inviting" if the guy was a rapist? Should women always say "no"?
I ask these questions to show you people won't be confused about a victim-aggressor game. It's an erotic style, not a "wrong way of being".
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Originally Posted by jewels And yes, both the worst and best case scenarios for any decision need to be taken into account before deciding. Otherwise you aren't taking any responsibility for your actions. And both having a few drinks and driving home and letting a guy kiss you after you've said "no" are actions that can lead to a variety of results. If you're not ok with the worst case scenario for something, you shouldn't be doing it. |
You shouldn't live, actually, cause you might die young...
I don't disagree with everything you say, of course we have to take care of ourselves, nobody else will. But you don't get the victim-aggressor game at all, and you seem to try and tell it makes people rapists and rape victims. It's not true. Also, remember that victim-aggressor games go two ways. It's not always the woman being "chased".
Look at me: I never drink and drive. I never rape anyone. But I have kissed men saying no. I have done more to men saying no, too. I knew they didn't mean it, and I was right. Does that mean they would be to blame or deserve it if I had hurt them? Did they do anything wrong by not meaning their "no"s? I tell you, they secretely hoped for more, but pretended to be "decent". Had I been wrong about that, I would have noticed while undressing them.
If anything, me pushing on despite their "no's" only placed more responsibility on ME, and not on the person with the "fake no's".
It's an erotic game, turning people on. Not a rape invitation. I don't expect you to get it, but I felt like explaining.